Orc Blitzer - What to take

[Cramy]

I've seen this argument as well, and don't completely buy into it. If you have a slow dodger and you play against Dwarves, then sure, it will not be that useful. But against other teams they can really help. If your opponent has only a couple of tacklers, then you can often keep them busy with sacrificial players to avoid them attacking your ball carrying dodger. Put that Zombie on that Orc Blitzer with tackle.

Obviously, having more dodge players and your opponents having less tackle players is better. The more dodge players you have on your team though, the more difficult it is for your opponent to neutralize them.

One has to look at it on a league basis. Is it more worth it to take Dodge, or another skill? Depends on the league that you are playing in and what's your strategy with your team.

[DoubleSkulls]

So are you saying basically that if a team does not start with any dodge in the roster then you won't give it to any players on that team?

Having one or two dodge players, particularly S3 blitzer types can be counter productive as all they end up doing is attracting attention from the opposition's tackle players.

Mainly its about making a conscious decision to go for lots of dodge or none. Most developed teams would aim for 2~4 tackle on the team. If you have no dodge that's 80k worth of inducements for no penalty (or vice versa). So you might be in a better position for the game.

Or you go for lots of dodge so you've enough you can overwhelm the number of tackle and get benefit from it. So once you get to 6+ dodge then very few teams can cancel it all out.

I do make exceptions. So dedicated runners/ball carriers almost always benefit from dodge because they shouldn't be being hit often and it can be difficult to target them with the tackle players (if you do it right!).

[PubBowler]

Unless Dodge is on your positionals or going to be taken on every player I wouldn't take any.

It's TV spent on a skill which the vast majority of teams will be able to counter.

[mattgslater]

On ST4, Dodge is categorically great. On ST3, it's only great if you couple it with Stand Firm or Side Step, if you get it when everybody's brand new, or if you have a lot of it.

On Orcs, a Dodge/Stand Firm Blitzer makes a good corner, especially if you flank him with Guard. It's also good on a safety, especially if you can protect him with a nigh-invulnerable inside LB (like a Block/Dodge/SF BOB). On a BOB, Dodge is a good complement to Stand Firm or Block, and is worth taking as a #2 skill if you start with either of those. This high-AG guy is a safety, so Dodge makes some sense on him, as he'll frequently get to pick his position once your BOBs start to improve, and will be able to avoid Tacklers somewhat (it is one more thing to think about). There's also the durability thing to consider, where Dodge makes you tougher but Leap doesn't, but that's a weak argument on an Orc.

[DoubleSkulls]

I'd not take dodge on a BOB for the 2nd skill. Block, Guard, Stand Firm & Mighty Blow all give better improvement IMO. I'd probably not consider doubles until 3rd or 4th skill.

[PubBowler]

I'd not take dodge on a BOB for the 2nd skill. Block, Guard, Stand Firm & Mighty Blow all give better improvement IMO. I'd probably not consider doubles until 3rd or 4th skill.

Agreed

[mattgslater]

What's his role and where is he? Is he an end? Dodge is good as a 3rd, after Block and (SF or Guard). Is he a middle LB? Dodge is good as a 2nd if the end in front of him has Block/Stand Firm already. If you have a BOB at outside LB, in the WZ, don't get Dodge at any point.

[purdindas]

What's his role and where is he? Is he an end? Dodge is good as a 3rd, after Block and (SF or Guard). Is he a middle LB? Dodge is good as a 2nd if the end in front of him has Block/Stand Firm already. If you have a BOB at outside LB, in the WZ, don't get Dodge at any point.

What is an end, a LB or an outside LB?

Anyway dodge is the best option. It makes him more mobile and also a good ball carrier. His chances of getting knocked down are highly reduced. Leaping on a 3 is a last ditch roll in my opinion and not worth taking if dodge is available.

[PubBowler]

What is an end, a LB or an outside LB?

American football terms.

Linebacker & Outside Linebacker.
End could be tight end, split end or defensive end.

I don't think they are very helpful in these sort of discussions.
It seems to me that they add to the possibility of confusion.

[mattgslater]

Since most players are fielded on offense and on defense, and since offensive setup is frequently contingent on what the defense does (not to mention subject to the first turn of movement), it's often convenient to think of all players except offensive specialists in primarily defensive terms.

Black Orcs generally hold one of two positions most of the time they're used: on the line, or off the line in a spot where the opponent would otherwise be likely to blitz. Many coaches (certainly not all) put BOBs on the two ends of the line, putting either a Troll or a Lineman in the middle (the nose). The other two might be stuck one or two squares behind the line to absorb the blitz (an "inside" linebacker), or in the Wide Zone either to soak up blitzes along the sideline (the cornerback) or to protect the cornerback with skills like Guard and Frenzy (the "outside" linebacker). The "safety" position, protected in the backfield, typically goes to Gobs, Throwers and Blitzers, who move faster and are mostly more susceptible to injury. Black Orcs don't make great cornerbacks, because they're very slow, but with their high ST scores some people do that anyway.

If you expect your BOB to take a blitz (inside LB or corner) and he already has Block, you can give him Side Step over Stand Firm, or you can give him Dodge. I'd take Dodge. Few players can hit a ST4 Blodger effectively. ST4/Block, ST3/Blodge... those can be dealt with. But ST4/Tackle is pretty rare.

If your BOB is going to the line, then I'd only grab Dodge as a follow-up to Stand Firm. If you start with Block or Guard, that makes this skill #3 at the earliest. Dodge has the advantage in that it messes with Big Guys' perms on a line block, while Block usually has no effect (as Big Guys usually don't have Block). Not having Block on a BOB isn't so critical when you're the active player: just make sure to sic him on ST3/Block players whenever possible so you don't lose KD permutations.

If your BOB is going into the WZ to protect the cornerback (as an outside LB), you're not so much concerned about keeping your feet and are more interested in delivering the hit or protecting the corner, so you should ignore doubles in favor of Block, Guard, Frenzy or Grab, and Mighty Blow. Should such a player hit 76 SPP (good luck), I'd go for Tackle.