Game variant: Blood Ball Union

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:55 am

Blood Ball Union.

A Bloodbowl variant for the pansy elves.
(Inspired by someone on TBB who said they had two divisions (A)gile and (B)ash in their league.)

This is a wood elf variant of Blood Bowl, with extra-strict combat rules designed to prevent the spilling of blood. It's not very popular outside of the forests, but it's very popular with little old ladies and elfgirl guides. While the occasional spiked elbow may slip through the defenses, the combat limitations (no bear-holds, spear-tackles, coat-hangers, scissor-kicks, and many other staples of the Orc repertoire) mean that the nimbler players tend to fare much better when playing these rules than standard (League) rules.

All normal Blood Bowl rules apply, except where they conflict with these combat rules.

1. Because attackers cannot commit to grapples or excessively-violent follow-up attacks, the Defender Stumbles result on the block dice causes the defender to be pushed back only. If the attacker uses the Tackle skill, the defender is pushed back and Knocked Down. The Dodge skill does not prevent this. (Obviously, dwarves like this!)

2. Tackle has no effect on the Dodge skill when dodging. It is now limited to its affects on the block dice. (Obviously a benefit for the Amazons!)

3. Because attackers must roll away after a successful tackle, nimble players are at a great advantage in a block. So long as they can stay on their feet during the initial contact, they can often fare better than the better-armoured blockers and blitzers! Players who use the Dodge skill when being blocked (during a Block Action or Blitz Action) may choose to use their Agility instead of their Strength. This applies only when being blocked, not when blocking others. (Wood Elf catchers and Gutter Runners are now powerhouses!)

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:26 am

Hmm, I think it needs more time in the oven

Every elf takes Dodge as his first advance, and is STR 4! That can't happen... there's no reason to take anyone but elves. 5 AG Dodge players are now impervious almost.

I'd rethink the last point entirely.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 pm

That's the idea. I'm aiming for a game where almost noone bothers knocking people down: pushbacks are as much as you aim for. The change to defender stumbles does the same thing: massively reduces the number of knock-downs. You end up with a lot more dodges since there are a lot more TZs. More turnovers due to failed dodges than due to blocks. The high-str on defense thing is just driving the point home: elves can't block elves (offensive str 3, defensive 4) except by ganging up on one or two stragglers. So they wouldn't.

It's not Blood Bowl, the sponsors of that competition wouldn't touch this game with a hundred-foot pole. This is Blood Ball. You know, for pansy elves. So a lot of teams just wouldn't play this game.

I got the idea from something I read here a couple of days ago. It made me think of the changes to rugby union over the past few decades.. no rucking, rolling away in tackles, the shouldering rules.. even beards in scrums are becoming less common

Those pansy elf team managers probably have the same ideas in mind, they don't want their star catchers losing limbs in rough tackles.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:47 pm

I think in a game like this Wrestle will be the "downbringer" skill (Pow and Both Down will get opponent to the ground). Tackle will also be a popular skill. Dodge is a no-no!

Strip Ball will also be useful.

As I see it it's like playing the ball, not the blood.

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:06 pm

tenwit wrote:That's the idea. I'm aiming for a game where almost noone bothers knocking people down

Seems to me that you should be looking at Elfball then at Impact Miniatures. Fantasy football but with a lot less blood and a lot more movement.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:04 pm

I might play it a few times to try it out, if I can find willing opponents. I'd bet it's a lot easier to get BB players to try a quick rules variation than a whole new game with a new board and magic chalk.

Well, they might like the magic chalk, actually.

Stashman: Dodge isn't a no-no, it's the new uberskill! The reroll bit is now uncancellable (like Catch and Pass), and the bonus to ST for stunties, human Catchers, elf dodgers and Gutter Runners is awesome! Definitely too much to consider for real bloodbowl, but maybe fun for a ball-playing game. ST3 snotlings (when defending)? That just rules. ST5 Jordell? That's just UNFAIR

I don't think Wrestle becomes any more powerful than Block. Neither of those skills are affected, they will both bring an opponent down as often as they do with the normal rules. And Block leaves more TZs on the pitch, which is the new way to bring down dodgers (since blocking them isn't going to be as effective any more).

I'd guess that Block might be demoted to merely "popular" amongst certain big guys. Trolls and Ogres might go for Tackle as often as Block, to help them get SPPs. Block would remain choice number one with the Tentacles and Prehensile Tail guys, though.

Anyway, it'll be a few weeks before I can try this on anyone and report back, since I'll be in absentia getting married. Don't suppose I could talk anyone else into playing a game or two with these rules?

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:10 pm

BTW.. when I first thought up the idea, I added a new Grapple skill to cancel the effects of Dodge on ST. But I canned that because I wanted to be able to play the same teams using both sets of rules (so the star pansy elf team can move to Pro Blood Bowl and learn how to play a man's (orc's/lizard's) game! If you added that skill, you'd have a real development path for anti-catcher blitzers, with Tackle/Wrestle/Grapple being the three best skills in that order. Still, even Wrackle without Grapple is a pretty good combo, it just means there'll be more 1/2d blocks thrown..

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:03 pm

tenwit wrote:Anyway, it'll be a few weeks before I can try this on anyone and report back, since I'll be in absentia getting married. Don't suppose I could talk anyone else into playing a game or two with these rules?

Not your new wife perhaps...?

Congrats on getting married and have fun with designing some new rules.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:37 am

I'm not saying I dislike your idea, I just think it's wrong to have one group of teams (Elves) with such an advantage in the game!

My line of STR 4, Dodge elves is impenetrable, especially if I pick up some guard. There's a whole list of teams who won't be able to get 2 die blocks on the elves reliably- meaning they won't be playing the movement game at all (as they also won't be dodging.)

If you really want to go this way, don't make elves better at remaining standing up by using Dodge- it's already awesome in this version.

You might also consider making the diving tackle skill an action like it was a few editions ago- a player with this skill is able to use his agility as his strength when making a blitz.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:01 pm

That might work. But I wasn't intending this to be a fair fight: while some non-Dodge teams may stand a chance (the dwarves with their built-in Tackle might do OK), the idea was for an elf-on-elf game. Orcs will not do well in this game and I wouldn't want them to, if only for fluff reasons (they probably wouldn't survive long enough to get into the stadium, the games are all played in deepest elfland). Humans, Goblins, Lizardmen and Skaven would be alright at this game; Amazons could be made to work by skilled coaches; but this is intended to be a elf variant of the game.

I'd have no problem coming up with an orc variant of the game. Anyone for Punchball?

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:31 pm

Even elf teams are going to have problems dealing with elf teams!

6 dodge line elves now are now like 6 chaos warriors when you try to block them, and they can't be marked. With guard smattered in, they are almost unhittable.

I would try the game out. If you find that the elves are actually pushing the other elves around a bit, I guess it worked. Otherwise, I'd go back to the drawing board!

The funny thing is- current Blood Bowl if you only use elf teams is already a pretty "elfish league." I've played a small league with only elf teams (including some house ruled variants) and the game is insanely different.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:26 pm

I think that you're trying to relate this to Blood Bowl too much. The point is that you're not going to knock people over that much in this variant. Less than half as much as in normal Blood Bowl. That's the idea. More people to build walls and put TZs, more dodging through multiple TZs, more passing, longer plays. Far more ball-handling and far less blocking. That's the intention. Just like in rugby, only your a few of your forwards hit someone with the intention of flooring them: everyone else just wants to grab the ball or force the opponent to drop it.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:39 pm

I guess what I'm saying is that I like the idea of more blocks ending in pushes and fewer knockdowns, but I think making blocky inherently more risky will simply minimize blocking, and that doesn't seem right. One of the most interesting forms of player movement in Blood Bowl right now is blocking!

But I think the only big problem was that it made elves so much better than the other teams. If that's an OK thing for you, I think the rules are worth a playtest.

By the way, how about this for a rugby feel? When adding up assists, don't have tackle zones cancel assists. Basically, assume EVERYONE has guard. That way it really comes down to who has more people in a given region, not who has more guard.

Guard would have to be removed or re-tooled (counts as an extra person? Only one extra guard assist can be added to each block?)

Sounds interesting either way. Let us know how it turns out, and see how my theorybowl stacks up!