Dodge + GFI

[Papa Sebco]

The LRB FAQ says that you have to roll first for Go for it and then for Leap when there is a leap+GFI.

But what's about a Dodge+GFI ?

Most of the time, it doesn't matter if you roll first for GFI or first for Dodge (as long as you tell to your opponent what you are rolling the dices for ) but there are some situations when it does matter (because of player reroll or team reroll, because of diving tackle opponent, etc...).

[GalakStarscraper]

GFI always comes first.

If you have to GFI to block ... you GFI than throw the Block
If you GFI to Leap ... you GFI then Leap
If you GFI to a square with the ball ... you GFI and then pick up the ball
If you GFI to dodge .. you GFI then dodge.

Galak

[Papa Sebco]

Okay, thanks a lot. Is there something else in the LRB than the FAQ Leap+GFI example to underline that or is this only general idea ?

[GalakStarscraper]

Okay, thanks a lot. Is there something else in the LRB than the FAQ Leap+GFI example to underline that or is this only general idea ?

Its also spelled out with blocking ... between the 2 the precendent is clear for order of operations.

Galak

[alternat]

you are making four different examples in four different situations, that does not match together.

If you have to GFI to block ... you GFI than throw the Block

yes, because you are already in the square you have to block from, but in this case there is no movement involved in the GFI. If you fail the roll you fall in the square you are in.

If you GFI to Leap ... you GFI then Leap

if you fail either GFI or leap roll, you have the same result: you fall in the square you are leaping, so the sequence does not matter.

If you GFI to a square with the ball ... you GFI and then pick up the ball

you have to GFI to enter the square where the ball is, so there is nothing to discuss here. You have to roll the GFI to exit the square you are into, and then you have to roll the pick-up in the square you entered. Rolls happens in two different squares. Furthermore, if you fail the GFI there is no pick up roll at all.

If you GFI to dodge .. you GFI then dodge

same as leap. Is enough to fail one of the two rolls to fall in the square you are moving in, so the sequence does not matter again.

always, as long as you clearly declare which roll you are performing, just to be sure that everybody can tell if it is a failure or not.

[GalakStarscraper]

Alternat ... I thought about this big long rebutal ... but the bottom line is very simple.

You have to pay for the extra square of movement before it can happen. Its that simple ... so the GFI is always first even if the result is the same regardless of which roll is failed.

And your logic doesn't work on which square the GFI occurs in as its always the square you are trying to get to (in the case of the blitz block you are prepaying for the follow-up ... its just if you fail there is a special rule that kicks in because the square you SHOULD fall down in is occupied).

Galak

[Alamar]

You have to pay for the extra square of movement before it can happen. Its that simple ... so the GFI is always first even if the result is the same regardless of which roll is failed.
Galak

I like Galak's approach to this ... simple, basic, and makes lots of sense.

NOTE: If an opponnent declares that he's rolling for Dodge first then GFI I don't care much. Just let them roll without getting rules-lawyery

[alternat]

Alternat ... I thought about this big long rebutal ... but the bottom line is very simple.

You have to pay for the extra square of movement before it can happen. Its that simple ... so the GFI is always first even if the result is the same regardless of which roll is failed.

And your logic doesn't work on which square the GFI occurs in as its always the square you are trying to get to (in the case of the blitz block you are prepaying for the follow-up ... its just if you fail there is a special rule that kicks in because the square you SHOULD fall down in is occupied).

Galak

there is a contradiction in your logic.
if GFI happens in the square you are going in, how can you pay for it before it happens?
If you already entered the square you are GFiing, then you are paying after the movement, to ensure the game that you "did it".
And that's why you fall in the square you are running in, and not in the square you are running from (here may come into play the "real life" that shows that when you run you always fall face-down, but that's not the matter of discussion.... )


if you think about the whole stuff with a "real life" mind, GFI and dodging out of a square are made at the same time. You can't move the extra square if you don't get rid of the opponent, and you cannot try and get rid of your opponent if you are not able to run the extra square. None of the actions occurs before the other, they happen exactly in the same moment.

same for leap. You need the extra square to jump, and you need to jump neatly to reach the extra square. Both rolls concur to reach the same result.

Blitzing is a little bit different, because there are actually two consequent actions (the GFI and the block), but in this case I roll the GFI to be able to do something which happens after the next roll (the follow-up) or may even not happen.

GFI and pick-up are plainly two different matters.

The fact is that every die roll or dice roll combiantion is a "game mechanic" which leads to a result, more or less independently from their sequence, otherwise intercept wasn't still rolled before the throw

Anyway, that's mostly BBlosophy. From a practical point of wiew, for me it's enough to know which roll my opponent is going to roll, just to be sure that's a 2+ roll and not a 4+

[Papa Sebco]

If it's a 4+ dodge and a GFI, and you have a team reroll for example, it really matters if you MUST roll first for GFI or not.

If you roll first for 4+ dodge and succeed in, then roll 1 for your GFI, you won't hesitate to reroll for your 2+ GFI. But if you roll first for 2+ and have a 1, you may not reroll it as you know you will then have to roll a 4+ without any reroll. So there are some circumstances when it does matter to roll first for GFI or for dodge.

That said, Galak's explanation suits to me : we always have to roll first for GFI. This is clear and simple. I only think I will sometimes meet some coaches who didn't read this topic and argue there is nothing in the rulebook which tell you MUST roll first GFI and not Dodge in this kind of situation.

[DoubleSkulls]

Regardless of the real life or game mechanic's Tom's answer is a good one. Always roll GFI first.

I always say which one I'm rolling too just to avoid confusion!

[Duke Jan]

If you roll first for 4+ dodge and succeed in, then roll 1 for your GFI, you won't hesitate to reroll for your 2+ GFI. But if you roll first for 2+ and have a 1, you may not reroll it as you know you will then have to roll a 4+ without any reroll. So there are some circumstances when it does matter to roll first for GFI or for dodge.

Either way you go down in the same square, so it doesn't matter. Once you fail the GFI or action, you've failed. It doesn't matter that you know you won't have a re-roll for the leap (apart from how sweaty the palms of your hands are when rolling the 4+. Once you roll the GFI you have to go for the whole sequence or fail. you cannot re-roll the GFI and then decide not to leap, dodge, block or whatever it was you declared.

[plasmoid]

Hi Duke Jan,
point is, if you rolled a 1 on the GFI, and you're playing conservatively with your rerolls, you might very well choose not to reroll the GFI, because doing so would leave you in serious risk of just wasting a reroll.

Not saying which is best.

Just saying that it does matter sometimes. IMO.
Cheers
Martin

[alternat]

Regardless of the real life or game mechanic's Tom's answer is a good one. Always roll GFI first and state it, just in case your opponent is dumber that he looks.

fixed.

[Papa Sebco]

Hi Duke Jan,
point is, if you rolled a 1 on the GFI, and you're playing conservatively with your rerolls, you might very well choose not to reroll the GFI, because doing so would leave you in serious risk of just wasting a reroll.

Not saying which is best.

Just saying that it does matter sometimes. IMO.
Cheers
Martin

Exactly what I wanted to explain, but this is sometimes difficult for me to be clear when I'm writing in english. Thanks Plasmoid !

Regardless of the real life or game mechanic's Tom's answer is a good one. Always roll GFI first and state it, just in case your opponent is dumber that he looks.

fixed.

Fixed for me too.