Alternative Amazons

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:44 pm

My point in favour of Av8 on the blitzers is that if the whole squad is Av7 without much protection (e.g. universal dodge) then it will get sorely hurt much of the time. I'm just conscious that the tier 1 team which suffers the most casualties is skaven - Av7, AG3 and no real protective skills. Fend on the linewomen mitigates that a bit, but not a lot. So no Av8 and not much dodge/block/wrestle feels like the team would be too squishy.

For me the difference between accurate, pass & strong arm is pretty low. Accurate feels like an automatic first or 2nd pick anyway on this player, and strong arm an automatic doubles choice.

I sort of want this to be a team who throws the ball without worrying too much about being inaccurate - because of DC receivers. So pass seems to fit that better than accurate.

So a long bomb (safe throw assumed) - needing a 6 for accurate

Code: Select all

Roll  No Skill Pass         Accurate
1     Fumble   Reroll       Fumble
2     Hold     Reroll/Hold  Hold
3     Hold     Reroll/Hold  Inacc/Hold
4     Inacc    Inacc/Reroll Inacc
5     Inacc    Inacc/Reroll Accurate
6     Accurate Accurate     Accurate

So overall that looks like (assuming pass rerolls fumbles & hold results, but keeps inaccurate ones) - showing chances in 36. Strong Arm is the same at long bombing.

Code: Select all

       Pass Accurate
Fumble 3    6
Hold   6    6
Inacc  18   12
Acc    9    12

So assuming no TRR, pass gives a much better chance of avoiding a fumble at the expense of 1/6 more inaccurate passes - which isn't a big problem IMO because DC means you'll still get a catch attempt at about half of them.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:14 am

I'd be a bit cautious about accurate instead of pass because if would mean you need a RR for both the throw and the catch... not necessarily something thats desirable for a throwing game.

For me Hail Mary Pass adds a neat defensive option which forces people to focus especially hard on keeping the ball safe rather than beating the snot out of all that av7. It also adds a small offensive threat which should hopefully achieve the same sort of thing.

One important question about this team is.... can they reasonably be expected to last an 8 turn stalling drive? If they can then thats great. However, if they cant then they ought to have a relatively strong defence.

Melipone · Post by **Melipone** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:06 pm

I agree that the thrower still feels like it's lacking. I would say either movement 7, or adding Fend, or both for a +10k/+20k price hike would be appropriate. If it's an out and out passing team, it doesn't seem wrong to have the throwers be the team's star players. Right now they're not much better than a regular human thrower - safe pass, but no sure hands with AG3 and armour 7....

+1 for armour 8 blitzers.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:17 pm

Okay, I'm convinced HMP and 70k it is.

I am concerned about whether this team is too squishy, and I think there is only one way to find out and that is to play it.

First post is updated with the lineup.

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:24 pm

Wow... that edited roster looks somehow... sexy (I wouldn't call it that way if it were orcs, but they're 'zons after all...)

seriously, though I still moan 'bout that AV 8 blitzer, now with the edited thrower, it is a distinctive AG 3 passing roster. Well done.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:00 pm

Blitzer still needs to be 80K on a team this squishy IMO.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:52 am

I would play that team.

Also, I'm not worried about the squishyness. Fend is great defensively, and Dodge+Side Step+Wrestle fill out your linemen excellently.

I have "fended" a human line before, and I think it outperforms block from a "getting hit" perspective, and is only a little worse than dodge.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:15 am

Yeah, I agree. After SS and Dodge, Fend is the third-best line skill (well, maybe a three-way tie for third-best with Block and Wrestle). And unlike SS and Dodge, Fend can't really be countered on the LOS, where blitzes are rare. But it doesn't stop chain-blocks like SS does.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:00 am

Joemanji wrote:Blitzer still needs to be 80K on a team this squishy IMO.

Definitely something I'd contemplate if they weren't doing well enough. However I'd really like to see how they went before making any more tweaks.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:04 am

If they're still not passy enough (not a big risk, I would think), NOS Catchers are a blast, and 80k wouldn't break the bank. They wouldn't be as insane as PE Catchers (no Leap, no funky Pass Block tricks), but these gals are better-supported than PEs. Besides, if you're thinking of them in relation to Humans, they should pay more and get more for either Thrower or Catcher to showcase the emphasis on passing skills.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:32 am

1M: 1 Catcher, 2 Throwers, 3 Blitzers, 6 Linewomen, 4 TRRs, 20k banked. 4 TRRs means I'm not too worried about my lack of SH and I can pass to linos. Advancing linos and getting the first skill on a Thrower is what will make this team kick into high gear more than anything.

Skills that look good
Linewomen: Side Step, Kick, Dodge, Block (imagine a whole line full of SS/Fend, with two SS/Fend corners....).
Blitzers: Dodge, Guard, Strip Ball, Jump Up, Frenzy, Diving Tackle.
Throwers: Sure Hands

, then the whole standard Thrower suite, with maybe a small up-prioritizing of KOR or NOS.
Catchers: Catch, Block, then, what, Sprint, Sure Feet... they don't need to do marker-duty, as linos and Blitzers have A access too.

I see a few things that look like they might be very gnarly over time. SS+Fend is the closest thing there is to an anti-Guard, and the standard lino is one skill off of that. Even just four or five linemen with 1 or 2 skills each would be enough to kill OSPT dead, force agility teams to Leap or fail, and suffer a lot less damage than their AV would indicate, as they'd be spectacularly hard to line up blocks on. That takes a little early motivation to score with linos, but within half a dozen games you should have a very tough nut to crack.

I can't help but think that the HMP/DC game won't be a big factor, and that DC's main benefit on this team is the +1.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:06 am

mattgslater wrote: I can't help but think that the HMP/DC game won't be a big factor, and that DC's main benefit on this team is the +1.

I agree, but it certainly is distinctive, and FUN! I love Hail Mary Pass... but I probably use it once every 4 games?

Raziel_Spry · Post by **Raziel_Spry** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:18 am

This is SO much better than the uninspired roster Amazon coaches are currently stuck with!

It is a much needed injection of personality, and actually makes me feel like this team would be cool to play.

NOTHING would make me play the current (dull) Amazon team.

Pug · Post by **Pug** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:21 am

Sorry saw the topic title "Alternative Amazons" and thought somebody as going to mention ...

"Men in tights. TIGHT tights!"

LOL.....oh dear it's late....................

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:47 am

Raziel_Spry wrote:NOTHING would make me play the current (dull) Amazon team.

If I were to give you $100 in your choice of currency, would you play them?