Big Guys Using TRR's during other players actions

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:15 pm

Hi

Don't know if this has been covered before but with the debate over the new usage of re-rolls for them it was something that occurred to me.

Under the Big Guy rules it specifies that they cannot use TRR's during their action. However can they therefore use a TRR for something they are doing during another players action? The obvious example would be a catch, which is carried out during a different players pass action. By the way I read it they can, but it seems a bit odd!

Cheers

Richard

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:20 pm

Big Guys cannot use team re-rolls, period.

McSnaga · Post by **McSnaga** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:24 pm

and besides .. team re-rolls can't be used during an opponents turn anyway.

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:26 pm

to quote from Handbook (I assume wording is same in LRB)

Big Guy

Big guys prefer to work on their own, and in any case are not noted for paying terribly much attention to what is going on in team practice sessions! As a result, Big Guys may not use Team Re-rolls during their actions

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:27 pm

But the example I've used is a catch, during one of your own players actions......

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:29 pm

That's probably another case of poor wording. The Big Guys are not intended to EVER be allowed to use team re-rolls; at least, that's my understanding. I'll consult with the rest of the BBRC and get back to you if they disagree.

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:34 pm

big guys cannot use RRs. this is clearly stated. you may not use team RRs in your opponents turn. this is also clearly stated. so how exactly do you imagine you can twist the wording around to say big guys are allowed to use a team RR in a place where any other player on your team cannot? and the example of catch during an INT attempt is irrelevant, as its a skill and not a team RR. there's a really big difference there.

slackman 42

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:40 pm

sorry, i just realized i didnt quite read that correctly. but how exactly are you planning on doing something with a big guy, or any other player for that matter, while currently taking an action w/ someone else? as soon as you do something w/ your big guy, the first action stops and now the big guy is taking his. catching the ball is an action, albeit a free one, and therefore big guys cannot use a team RR while doing so. were he to ever gain the skill catch, or pro for that matter, he is more than welcome to use it at that time.

slackman 42

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:52 pm

Where do you get the idea that catching is an action for the player taking it? Catching the football is (generally) part of the pass action when another player throws the ball (or you could argue it is not part of any action,). Otherwise it would use up the action for that player for that turn. It does not fall under any of the categories of action, but is rather a reaction to a pass to that square.

Richard

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:32 pm

is picking up the ball an action? if its only a reaction to moving to the square containing the ball, or the ball bouncing to a player, then why not let big guys RR that too.

slackman 42

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:40 pm

But the player moving to that square is the player taking the action, and under the definition of big guy he wouldn't be able to use a re-roll.

Just to take this a bit further, if you use a TTM action, I don't think (by the rules) you can use a re-roll on the landing roll by the goblin, as it is part of the pass action made by the big guy.

Do you get my point now?

BTW, I agree to the approach that appears to be taken. But it needs to be defined as a roll relating to the big guy rather than an action.

Cheers

Richard

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:52 pm

i didnt move to the ball, it bounced to me. so that means i can RR it. my point here is you can make anything beardy enough to suit your own purpose. that's the problem w/ words. they mean different things, especially when you have to translate into different languages. were it up to me, i'd have written a lot of the rules differently. but guess what, i didnt write the rules. neither did you. they were written by the people who created the game. and they wrote what they did the best way they could in order to clearly explain the things in their heads. it will never have perfectly worded rules, because there will ALWAYS be some beardy bastard out there who thinks he's gonna get an unfair advantage by twisting the words around. im not saying you're a beardy bastard. im saying that's a beardy interpretation that goes against the spirit as well as the letter of the law.

slackman 42

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:53 pm

big guys can't use rr full stop
you can't use rr in your opponents turn full stop

there you go its as clear as mud, those are the rules now either paly by them or use house rules for your league but remember they are house rules not official ones

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:03 pm

I only partly agree with you on beard-ness. If this hadn't been posted and someone tries pulling it in a tournament it is beardy; especially as usually the people who would try it can out-argue the other player and possibly the umpire (especially as the rulebook supports what I say quite clearly!). However the whole point of rules forums is to discuss points like this so that people are aware of both what the rules say, and what they should be changed to.

However in every game there is a certain element of rules manipulation (or beardiness) involved. You don't have to agree with the rule (and I find quite often I strongly disagree) but you have to play by the rulebook. Not what the author may have intended it to say but what it does say. Otherwise you get a lot more inconsistencies from tournament play, with the more dominant players winning the rules arguments.

Believe it or not I am actually nice to play against! If an opponent hasn't been aware of a particular ruling (especially if it is a contentious point) I will usually let them off and amend their move. I just like to sort out rules points thoroughly...

(honest!)

Oh, and Grumbledook please read the above posts and the rulebook. The intent may be that that big guys cannot use team rr's at all but that is not supported by the rulebook. I have also never in any of the posts stated using re-rolls in the opponents turn. That was a mis-interpretation of the post.

Richard

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:06 pm

oh i misunderstood the other players actions think quicker than i read ;]