Need ideas for buffing ogres - round 4, Proposal

[Old Man Draco]

And the Treemen can handle Ogres on the LOS, even when outnumbered.
~Andromidius

I'm a horrible Ogre coach,look at my NAF ranking! But Ogres beat the crap out of halflings and there is nothing the trees are going to do about that. Two ogres againt the trees and four ogres against the little men who scatter all over the place. You only get a 3-d block if you reach the snots with an assist. Most of the time you'll have to get through the ogres first.
And the ogres don't need an assist to block your halflings 3-d with mighty blow against AV 6.
Of course flings can dodge (well mine can't but hey, they have dodge so they are supposed to fail their dodgerolls! ) but they will have to dogde a lot to stay away from the ogres who will hunt them down.
So I'd not dare say Halfling teams muscle out ogres..... On the contrary.

[Lictor]

A Halfling Team could afford Deeproot and Morg + other things if he is up against on Ogre team with 6 of the big fellas.

I have been told of a concept of TR vs efficiency of skills. Basically it is about getting the maximum from your team for the lowest possible TR. Ogres are the antithesis of this concept. Between 6 expensive guys and the necessity of a lot of expensive RR's, their TR is blown out just by having a full roster.

I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Ogre team in my League has a TR of 1.8 and they are not as scary as they should be. 1.4 is just Ogres, Snots and RR's.

[Andromidius]

Aye, Halflings are all about the inducements. Deeproot will see pretty much every game in a league due to cost cutting madness, and having three Trees on the LOS (especially if even one has Guard) is going to be huge pain for the Ogre player. Either feed them three Snotlings, or hope that you get a little lucky with trying to bash them back. And of course, feeding Snotlings only lasts one or two drives.

Not very pretty.

~Andromidius

[plasmoid]

It's time for round 2:
I've collated the list - bolding anything that has been appriciated by someone other than the poster himself.
If you like anything on this list that is not in bold, please replay with your praise before april 29th

0-8 ogres
MA6 snots
sure feet snots
0-2 gobbos
10K price dump on something
0-12 Ogres
+0-2 ogre positionals
0-4 ogres with 0-2 ogre positionals
Cheaper ogres
General skill access on ogres & snots
Snot positionals with dauntless
Titchy facilitates TTM

[Der_Doodle]

1.) 0-8 ogres
2.) MA6 snots
3.) sure feet snots
4.) 0-2 gobbos
5.) 10K price dump on something

1) I dont think this is a very usefull buff cause it directly goes into the TV (a problem ogres have anyways with their high TV)

2 and 3) Both attack the points the ogres lack most. SPEED.
But under those two i deffinitly prefer Sure Feet over MA6. for 3 reasons.
a) A snot that fails a GFI will most likely not see the rest of the game.
b) Sure Feet is one of the skills i would give my snots early anyways
c) MA5+Surefeet is usually slightly faster then MA6 without it since Ogres dont have the Rerolls leftover for unneeded GFI's
4.) Well might be nice atleast its more variation
5.) hmm -10k on ogres is just a 6TV bump. -10k on Rerolls is only a 5TV bumb.
and -10k on snots wont happen cause 10k for a snot player is too cheap.

[Pug]

1) 0-8 ogres
2) MA6 snots
3) sure feet snots
4) 0-2 gobbos
5) 10K price dump on something

1) I think 8 is over the top.

2) Yes will help.

3) Hmmm.Maybe

4) Yes. Very good addition.

5) Re-rolls.

[plasmoid]

Right. Nobody has pushed anything else onto the list, so we proceed with the poll.

[plasmoid]

Nnniargh,
I forgot to get this on the list:
"Titchies exert normal TZs."

I think the team needs something as big as that to work.
Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Right. This one seems pretty clear cut:
1. MA6 snotlings is the number 1 option.
That eliminates the runner up option of sure hands snotlings - but I guess those voters will consider the MA6 a pretty close proxy.
2. 0-8 ogres on the team. Too much? Not sure. I often feel when I play them myself that I'm doing slightly better when I don't field the full 6 ogres.

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

This poll has settled a long way from the 50 vote mark.
But either way:
Faster snotlings as the clear favourite, and MA6 is the preferred solution.
For an extra positional, ogres and gobbos are tied.
Personally, if the MA6 option had already been applied, I'd settle for the gobbos.

[plasmoid]

0-2 ogres are now more popular than 0-2 gobbos.
Interesting.
I think it will be much less of a buff in the short term. Not sure how it will play out long term.
8 ogres is a nightmare. For both coaches

Anyway, the team would look like this:

Code: Select all

0-16 20K Snotlings  6135 A  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff, Titchy
0-8 140K Ogres      5529 S  Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, TTM, Bone-head
70K ReRolls

[Carnis]

0-2 ogres are now more popular than 0-2 gobbos.
Interesting.
I think it will be much less of a buff in the short term. Not sure how it will play out long term.
8 ogres is a nightmare. For both coaches

Anyway, the team would look like this:

Code: Select all

0-16 20K Snotlings  6135 A  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff, Titchy
0-8 140K Ogres      5529 S  Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, TTM, Bone-head
70K ReRolls

I forgot to post on this thread. Played a 14 match reap with the LRB5 ogres and about 8 games with the LRB4 ogres. The goblins are CRAZY, compared to snotlings. The fact a snotling can never afford to get knocked down without dieing totally kills the agility play + MA5 and not having TZ's is a joke..

I don't think adding +2 ogres (at 140k & current inducements) would help the team, but I voted for it for the ogreness & the MA6 snotlings. I really think 6 ogres and 2 ogre positionals would do more good.

I really think price cuts would be necessary, se-rious pricecuts. My LRB5 ogre team was always facing wizard++ & still losing the casualtygame due to AV5 linemen (even with 1-2 mb/piling on ogres).

In addition to pricecuts, adding +1 to landing rolls for titchy (was in some experimental stage) would be both fluffy and a buff (ogres are supposed to toss snotlings around, not avoid it at all costs).

How good do you want the ogres to be anyway? Tier2? Tier 1,5?

[plasmoid]

Hi Carnis,
well, in my world there'd only be tier 1 and tier 2. And ogres would be tier 2.
As for the ammount of tweaking, I think tons of small tweaks will be a turn-off. I'd rather have 2 significant ones.

Price cuts haven't been doing well in the polls. So I can't really defend doing it.
And I guess thinking about it, that is my main problem with 0-8 ogres. The team would break all standards for the cost of the "best 11". 1180K is way waaaaay more than the runner up. I just can't stomach that!

I think gobbos would be a better fit. Heck, I think 130K ogres would be a better fit. Would help humans too.

Since you have experience with 'em: Would 0-2 gobbos be crazy powerful?
Cheers
Martin

[SillySod]

The team would break all standards for the cost of the "best 11". 1180K is way waaaaay more than the runner up. I just can't stomach that!

After you factor in the cost of skills its likely to be much closer to other teams "best 11".

0-2 goblins is highly unlikely to break the roster, 0-6 would be pretty safe still.

[plasmoid]

Hi SillySod,
I was thinking about best potential 11 on a starting roster - as a guideline for team design.
A lot of teams land around 900K. Only Delfs and Welfs break the million. Going to almost 1180K seems crazy.

(As for the developed team... I don't know. Sure, my snots get hurt, but my ogres are slowly but surely building their skills (getting help from mighty blow) and with 8 of those, dying snots are less of a factor TV-wize).

Cheers
Martin