Ideas for buffing the vampire team - round 3: Poll

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

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Which buff is the most appropriate for the vampire team?

6338 thralls (50K)
16
22%
6337 thick skull thralls (40K)
18
25%
Bloodlust can create a vampire
9
12%
Bloodlust can only stun
16
22%
MA7 on vampires (120K)
10
14%
Stab on vampires (120K)
0
No votes
10K price dump on something
4
5%
 
Total votes: 73

stashman
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Post by stashman »

plasmoid wrote: The list
1. AV8 thralls
2. Thick skull on thralls
3. Bloodlusting can generate a free vamp
4. Bloodlusting can only stun
5. Small price dump (10K off reroll, vamps or thralls)
6. MA7 on vampires
Cheers
Martin :)
This must be the best buffs, not totally changing the rules.

1. I voted for this and think it will help them from getting beaten up by the opponent. Bloodlust still gets them injured.

2. Thick Skull is a buff, but it won't help much, and fluffwise I think thralls are not so strongheaded as dwarfs and golems.

3. To complex and it will kill your TV and you will sack them anyway.

4. If it's only a stun, then you will never ever thinking of rerolling the dice. To soft. When bloodlust kicks in it shall get in under your skinn.

5. Vamps @ 100K sounds fine, but thralls for 30K seems wrong, becuse you can still only have 16 of them. If rerolls cost 60K won't do much, you can still only start with 5 as most.

6. MA7 on vamps can be a good buff, maybe to good! It makes the team getting potential one-turners. MA9 with sprint, chainpushed one square and then blitzing with ST4. Well it's not easy to get +2 MA, but it make the team to "easy" to play. I rather see Stab as a skill on the vampires (fluffwise: Biting the opponent).

Keep it up Martin

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Post by Glowworm »

Dont see "stab" as much of an option, you can get 2d blocks against average (S3) players with a Vamp (even better if he's got block as a first skill) Straight Av roll from stab is ok but you dont get SPPs from it so i (personally) would probably block every time. maybe Stab if you have Multiple block but thats 2 skills...

Why not Claws? (Fangs) that would even up the playing field but maybe to overpowering?

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Post by Andromidius »

AV8 Thralls. Brings them on par with Human Linemen, at least.

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Post by mattgslater »

glowworm wrote:Dont see "stab" as much of an option, you can get 2d blocks against average (S3) players with a Vamp (even better if he's got block as a first skill) Straight Av roll from stab is ok but you dont get SPPs from it so i (personally) would probably block every time. maybe Stab if you have Multiple block but thats 2 skills...

Why not Claws? (Fangs) that would even up the playing field but maybe to overpowering?
I think we need a replacement for RSF. How about this?

Bite (Mutation), Version 1: The player has very large or sharp teeth and packs a fearsome bite. If he can stick these teeth into an opponent's flesh he can leave extremely painful wounds, which fortunately tend to be shallow. If the player stuns an opponent as the result of a block thrown by either player, he may immediately re-roll the injury result. If the new result is a Casualty, do not roll on the Casualty table: instead, treat the result as "Badly Hurt" as if an 11-38 had been rolled.

Version 2: Fluff as above. Bite makes everybody Stunty: 7 = KO, 9 = BH.

Then change the Kroxigor. And put it on new Squig players for Goblins.

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Post by Glowworm »

Bite (Mutation), Version 1: The player has very large or sharp teeth and packs a fearsome bite. If he can stick these teeth into an opponent's flesh he can leave extremely painful wounds, which fortunately tend to be shallow. If the player stuns an opponent as the result of a block thrown by either player, he may immediately re-roll the injury result. If the new result is a Casualty, do not roll on the Casualty table: instead, treat the result as "Badly Hurt" as if an 11-38 had been rolled.

Now this I do like :D

Not crippling players/teams but you can get SPPs & its easy to remember....

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Post by Carnis »

glowworm wrote:Bite (Mutation), Version 1: The player has very large or sharp teeth and packs a fearsome bite. If he can stick these teeth into an opponent's flesh he can leave extremely painful wounds, which fortunately tend to be shallow. If the player stuns an opponent as the result of a block thrown by either player, he may immediately re-roll the injury result. If the new result is a Casualty, do not roll on the Casualty table: instead, treat the result as "Badly Hurt" as if an 11-38 had been rolled.
It's piling on without going prone. Combine with mighty blow for an awesome 82% chance of knockout or worse per injury check. I.E Ridiculously overpowered.

Imo the right way to improve the vampires, without compromising the feel of the team (assuming a buff is appropriate), is changing the probability of blood lust a bit. It's extremely expensive to reroll with a 70k reroll, or to skill up pro to all vamps just for blood lusting, so imo that's where the real tweaks are needed. Maybe change it from 1/6 to 1/9?

This would mean you could field more vampires than 2-4 reasonably, and have rerolls to use for other stuff. If changing that would make them too powerful, maybe make it a roll that can never be rerolled/or is rerolled as if having the loner skill..? That way 6 vamps would bite 5-6 times / half instead of 8 times / half.

Blood Lust (Extraordinary)
Vampires must occasionally feed on the blood of the living. Immediately after declaring an Action with a Vampire, roll 2d6: If both of the dice rolled are 1-2 however, the Vampire must feed on a Thrall team-mate or a spectator. On any other roll the action may continue as normal. The Vampire may continue with his declared Action or if he had declared a Block Action, he may take a Move Action instead. Either way, at the end of the declared Action, but before actually passing, handing off, or scoring, the vampire must feed. If he is standing adjacent to one or more Thrall team-mates (standing, prone or stunned), then choose one to bite and make an Injury roll on the Thrall treating any casualty roll as Badly Hurt. The injury will not cause a turnover unless the Thrall was holding the ball. Once the Vampire has bitten a Thrall he may complete his Action. Failure to bite a Thrall is a turnover and requires you to feed on a spectator – move the Vampire to the reserves box if he was still on the pitch. If he was holding the ball, it bounces from the square he occupied when he was removed and he will not score a touchdown if he was in the opposing end zone.

Imo 40k 6 3 3 7 players are fine foulers/assists which thralls are intended to be.

Edit: The wording of the skill wasn't in line with the intended probability in the original post. Now it may be a bit confusing though..

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Post by mattgslater »

A 3+ roll on 2d6 has zero drama. Did you mean 4+? That's 1/12 to fail.

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Post by Carnis »

Yep I contradicted myself in the posting as well :P. Thinking about it now, what I meant was 4+ (1/12).

But a 1/9 (if both rolls are 1 or 2, as with the block dice) could be more interesting, however it might be hard to word into the skill so that people would understand. This isn't that important in a house rule though, maybe..

I'll edit the post to make it work as intended.

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Post by plasmoid »

Right, since nobody has voiced additional support for anything from round one, I'll move the 6 items to the poll.

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Post by plasmoid »

Right, with 29 votes in this is what we have:
1. Thick skull on the thralls (6337 TS, 40K)
(That one is mutually exclusive with the runner up (6338 50K), so next one is):
2. Bloodlust can create a vampire
3. Bloodlust can only stun

So, thick skull on the thralls and seriously tweaking Bloodlust seems the most popular 3 step tweak. (Which is not meant to say that 3 steps are needed).

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Post by Glowworm »

1. Thick skull on the thralls (6337 TS, 40K)
(That one is mutually exclusive with the runner up (6338 50K), so next one is):
2. Bloodlust can create a vampire
3. Bloodlust can only stun

just my opinions, (I play Vamps in a league at present)

1. Does not help much long term, Still have to replace and "Cas" Thralls after each match, even with the new BL rule (BH on bite) Thralls are just strong Gobbo's without Dodge/Stunty. Opponents just pick them off.

2. Think about this, dead thrall = new Vamp so Tv goes up by 70K I assume you would have to price him at 110 ? do you have to take the "New" Vamp or can you choose not to (Like Raise Dead) If you leave his cost at 40K I would "fire" an unskilled (110K) Vamp and keep my unskilled 40K New Vamp (and reduce Tv by 70K!) and we go back to the old Re-roll the BL and hope for a 1 (like WA used to be) & at the end of the match i would still have to buy another Thrall...(Pro skill would be high on Vamps skill list as a 2nd skill)

Also on a practical note, Ive got 6 Vamp models but its generally thought that 3 or 4 vamps are max. So after 1 match Tv goes up 110K & you get a new Vamp & Thrall saving 40K but what if you've already got 4 or even 5 Vamps on the roster? again short term would be fun, long term not convinced.

3. See 1!

Not wishing to be objectionable but from a personal point of view none of the above are long term solutions, better people than me can do the maths but long term give vamps Human lineman Thralls. (not fat amazon linewomen who have lost the ability to dodge at -10K )

or

Make Vamps more "Bashy" to even the odds... Claws ? Wont make a difference to Thralls (auto armour) but may cause opponents to concentrate less on Thralls

In Conclusion, If you want to improve Vamps then you must (as many have realised) Make Thralls better, the obvious solution is just give them Av8 at +10K

3 Vamps 330K
9 Thralls 450K (6338 G/ASP)
3 R/R 210K
1 F/F 10K

I think thats a playable (starting) team

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Post by Ullis »

I think vamps are fine as they are. In my, limited, experience vamp teams crumble when the thralls start leaving the pitch. Thick Skull would be of obvious help here as it would help against getting blocked and bitten. I voted for +AV, but Thick skull without a price increase feels better after a short think. A price increase on the thralls would mean that starting a vamp team would just more difficult.

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Post by someone2040 »

At a first glance, I actually like MA 7 Vampires. Just cause, with all the Vampire background and everything, aren't Vampires supposed to be super-speedy and all that to the Human eye? Yet they can only move as fast as a Human.

I don't think that directly addresses teh Vampire problem though, which is the fragile Thralls. So I think, the only two plausible ones that make Vampire competitive are the AV 8 or Thick Skull. I'd just go AV 8. Thick Skull doesn't make too much sense to me (Just cause you're working with Vampires doesn't make you a dumb ass... I mean, have a thicker skull). So AV 8 would be my way to go.

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Post by plasmoid »

No movement here:
Buffed thralls is the number one option, with Thick Skull thralls being the small favourite.
Runner up option is a tweak to bloodlust, which will grant a free vampire.

Cheers
Martin

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Post by Glowworm »

Id vote for buffing Thralls for the reasons Ive stated already...

Still think Av8 Thralls would make a world of difference

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