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I'm with Ian here,
be careful not to give a boost that makes the team even more of a monster when developed.
That leaves
a) a price dump. But 2 skills and S access on a 6338 beastmen for just 10K more is just too far out - even if the team is still balanced. And CWs actually get a discount too already, so it would have to be a truly minor skill. MA6 is only 10K in the formula, so that might be a good bet formulawize. And, Ian, Rerolls to 60K? They are at 60K . And 50K rerolls just seem wrong.
b) A cheap linemen. Yep - that would help the starting team, without helping the developed team. 6238 G might be the ticket. 30K? Or 40K.
...not much else would work - IMO.
Cheers
Martin
Reason:''
Narrow Tier BB? http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
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plasmoid wrote:
b) A cheap linemen. Yep - that would help the starting team, without helping the developed team. 6238 G might be the ticket. 30K? Or 40K.
Those aren't linemen, those are goblins without dodge.. No chaos (or any team) player would buy them, as they need to be skilled up before they are of any use. S2 ag3 player with no dodge reroll is just asking to be marked by a human lineman, and that's pathetic to be honest :/.
If you wanna boost early play why not just give them some runnertype.
0-2 6337 sure hands 60k GM/ASP or GPM/AS
it's not like its on par with orcs 5338 surehands/pass or dwarves 6338 sure hands, thick skull, pass access
Carnis wrote:
If you wanna boost early play why not just give them some runnertype.
0-2 6337 sure hands 60k GM/ASP or GPM/AS
Similar to my suggestion two pages ago. Am I imagining it? But there seems to be a consnsus around either an improvement in ball handling via a 0 - 2 type or a re-roll reduction?
Carnis wrote:
If you wanna boost early play why not just give them some runnertype.
0-2 6337 sure hands 60k GM/ASP or GPM/AS
Similar to my suggestion two pages ago. Am I imagining it? But there seems to be a consnsus around either an improvement in ball handling via a 0 - 2 type or a re-roll reduction?
Yours had +1 Armor & wrestle for the same cost. Which would have made for a far bigger buff (better than beastmen for sure on all accounts as you can get horns on a normal roll + wrestle/surehands give turnover protection). The main idea is the same though, yes.
Agreed, similar direction, question is how big a buff is required.
As I was assuming a marauder type, I was thinking along the lines of General access only, all other including mutation on a double roll.
Just started in a league with Chaos, at low levels they seem very disadvantaged. But I think we don't want to adjust anything that would give a plus to a developed team.
JaM wrote:a 0-2 6337 lino would be nice, with pass for example. 60K or something, with access to P, but only M and S on a double. Sort of a follower or mutant thingie.
0-2 6337 GP/SMA or something. or maybe 7247... more speed and agility, less strength.
Or go the "orc thrower" route: 5338 Pass GMP/AS 70K 0-2
And ALMOST similar to my suggestion on page 1.
Never mind. If we can get a (sort of) consensus on this player I'd be happy to let my opponent get one and try out. He wants to start out with a Chaos team anyway...
See, I really like the "no starting skills but Mutations" theme that the team already has. I'd like to see any additional players have either no skills (all statline) or just Mutations on the starting profile.
But ST3 without G access is silly. Non-G players should either be Stunty or ST5; either too big or too small for a game designed for minor megafauna (like people). I could see an exception if you gave an exceptional player AS, as that would be a reflection of natural talent without any interest in training, and AS feels nice and holistic. But just to take of G access as a balance thing? Not for me.
Reason:''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What about mutation only access matt? That could work great for ungors to show that they dont really improve at the game, they just get more gifts from the gods.
Reason:''
Victim of the Colonel's car boot smash. First person to use Glynn's bath. Update: the Hartlepool family Glynn now has a virgin bath.
I didn't know Ungors were dumber than Hobgoblins or Sauri. Besides, a Hob with GM access is hardly broken, as long as TRRs go back to 70k. They could even be twin basics, 0-12 each, with BMs (like skels and zombies).
I still think the fix is in giving Chaos a few starting mutations....
Reason:''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
Round 2
The list is long. I've tried my best to summarize, and to count up which ideas have had support from someone other than the original poster. The bolded items are the ones headed for the poll. But feel free to voice your opnion either for or against any of these options. Currently, there are way to many options to make a meaningful poll!!
All beastmen thick skull
All beastmen sure feet
All beastmen sprint
Mutant position 0-2 Minotaurs
50K rerolls
Diety skills, or other versions where a the coach can pick a skill when he buys the player is out, because it breaks the fundamentals of the game (or turns the team into 5 teams)
Reason:''
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Or just visit http://www.plasmoids.dk instead
Andromidius wrote:Just try playing a rookie Chaos team. You'll see what I mean. Spending two or three turns trying to pick up that ball, getting only a single block (blitz) in per turn, having the ball snatched from you time and time again because the opposing team can dodge into your backfield with immense reliability and there's very little you can do to stop it.
I'll also comment as someone who's done this. With 70k re-rolls. But I didn't get the ball snatched away all the time and there were things I could do to stop it.
I think I started with 1 chaos warrior, because I needed a lot of re-rolls and fan factor. And I did suffer through an early game of 5+ casualties, because they really aren't that good at blocking when you start out. But a ST4, AG3 blitz is not something to be overlooked. I've won plenty of games as Chaos and now they are better in the beginning. You make it sound like they're little better than Goblins.
Until you get skills, they are just as bad as Goblins. Goblins can at least dodge around reliably, and bring two decent Big Guys, secret weapons and rerolls. The Goblin team in my league is known for mass destruction, to the point where the Wood Elf player now refuses to play him.
And risk assessment is all well and good, but when you have no rerolls to fall back on nothing can help when you roll 1's and 2's.
Chaos are pure trash when starting out. Expensive players who struggle to do anything. Sure, give them twenty or more games and they might become useful... But that's a long time to wait when even Humans can bash you off the field (like I said, S3 Block + assist is better then S4, and very easy to set up).
Another solution, to stop this all being negative, is to give them cheap Rerolls. I mean they are Chaos, after all. 50k Rerolls would mean some sense of reliablity early league.
. And 50K rerolls just seem wrong.
