Need ideas for nerfing undead - round 4: Proposal

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
I need ideas for nerfing the undead team (beyond what LRB5+ did).
This is not a thread for discussing whether a nerf is appropriate - this a thread to come up with ideas for nerfs that a league could use, if said league had already decided that they wanted to do a nerf.

Also note that this a thread looking for a nerf - not a complete overhaul: Not an overhaul of the team and not a change to the core rules of the game. Cute as those may seem, they've got almost no chance of being accepted by actual leagues.
What I'm looking for is ideas that fit well with the fluff and look sensible and balanced.

Round 3
Time to vote

The list was:
Mummies
1a 0-1 mummy
1b Lose mighty blow
1c Lose might blow, gain foul appearance
1d Replace with Tomb Guards
1e Replace with Skeletal Ogre
1f Add loner
1g Add bonehead

Wights
2a Lose S access
2b Up wights to 0-4, but drop ghouls from the roster
2c: 0-2 Wight 6/3/3/9 Block, Dauntless, Regenerate 110k
2d: 0-2 Wight 6/3/3/8 Block, Disturbing Presence, Regenerate 110k
2e: 0-2 Wight 6/3/3/8 Block, Disturbing Presence, Regenerate, Thixk Skull 120k

Ghouls
3a Lose G, gain P
3b Reduce to ST2
3c Rename to wight runner: 90K 7337 regen, dodge GA
3d Rename to wight runner: 90K 7337 regen, fend GA
3e Rename necro ghoul Ghoul Runner. Undead ghoul (70K) 6337 dodge, thick skull
3f Rename necro ghoul Ghoul Runner. Undead ghoul (70K) 6337 dodge, sneaky git
3g Rename necro ghoul Ghoul Runner. Undead ghoul (70K) 6337 fend, thick skull
3h Reduce to 0-2
3i Reduce to 0-2, but gain regen (90K) and Wights gain AV9 (100K)
3j 0-4 ghouls 7338 GA 70K
3k Reduce to 0-2, but gain regen (90K) and Wights gain AV9+TS (110K)
3l 100k AV9 Wights, 0-2 Piling On Ghoul at 90k

Zombies
4a + Decay
4b Lose zombies entirely.
4c Zombies replaced with 0-2 zombie blockers (50K) 4328 regen (GS access)

Cheers
Martin

[Grumbledook]

mighty blow off the mummies?

ghouls move 6?

[duttydave]

Better still why not totally nerf the team and change the Mummies to Tomb Guardians? 4519, Decay, Regeneration, 100k

[Darkson]

mighty blow off the mummies?

Why not just remove the team entirely?

[Grumbledook]

that wouldn't be a nerf

[Al the Trowel]

Make the mummies Tomb Guardians and replace the rest of the team with skeleton positionals?

Take Strength access off the wights again?

Take General access from the Ghouls - give them Passing instead? To limit the amount of Blodge Sure Hands Ghouls the Undead spam out. Might lead them down a different route of team development.

Decay on Zombies?

[Joemanji]

Are you serious? Beyond what LRB6 did?

[PubBowler]

Are you serious? Beyond what LRB6 did?

Calm down Joe, you'll never have to use them.

[reservoirelves]

How to nerf the <overpowered team> for your league:

Don't let the good coaches play <overpowered team>.

[Mysterious Stranger]

In my experience, a lot of the complaints about facing Undead seem to be ghoul related. Maybe 0-2 ghouls, or Str 2 ghouls? Being a fan of Undead, both make me cry, but the stats do suggest that Undead are a bit overpowered.

[mattgslater]

How to nerf the <overpowered team> for your league:

Don't let the good coaches play <overpowered team>.

+1. That's also how to buff slightly underpowered teams. If it's too harsh, then make a 3-season or 3-team rule, where out of every 3 teams a coach runs, one must be speedy, one must be bashy, and only one can be from among the top-eight team races unless you're an expansion club or last 3 teams/seasons averaged a losing record.

Or implement exceptions for suboptimal builds. There's nothing wrong with a top coach playing Orcs if he's playing weird, oddball Tier 1.5 Orcs, 'cause you can build an Orc team that way.

Or offer coaches handicap cash or tiebreakers for taking on lower-power teams.

Lots of ways to do this without rewriting the rulebook.

[atropabelladonna]

I would go with a change to the mummies, otherwise you have to change other teams as well (i.e. Necro).

It sucks, but that means changing the mummies. Some ideas

• Make them tomb gaurdians.
  Or take off mighty blow and give them foul appearance.
  Give them a negative trait (Loner, bone head or really stupid)

[plasmoid]

Hi Joe and all,

Are you serious? Beyond what LRB6 did?

Yeah - I'm serious.
I don't think inflating their TV by 2-4 (point 3 and 4 coming with thick skull, which isn't nothing) will do anything noteworthy to their win percentage.

But never mind.
I consider the undead team to be a team that some leagues might still find overpowered.
And for those leagues, what would a good house rule be?

Cheers
Martin

[SillySod]

Find a way to buff them a little long term but cripple them a little short term.

[Andromidius]

Could always change the Mummy positional to Undead Ogres (with a notation somewhere that Mummy models make a fine subsititute, and have a similar statline anyway):

0-2 Undead Ogre - 120k 4/5/1/9 Loner, Bone 'ead, Thick Skill, Mighty Blow, Regenerate S/GAP

Essentially the same player as before, only now is loner and bone 'ead and slightly more expensive. That's a sizable nerf on the short term (and reasonable nerf long term).

A long term buff could be to allow 0-4 Wights. Gives the team a more unique feel to them as well, and allows for a team to only take a single Zombie or Skeleton when maxed out on positionals.

Also means Undead teams have a bit of flexiblity when they start. You can either go for the Undead Ogres and play them as a power team, or go for more Wights and Ghouls and try for a semi-finesse team.

~Andromidius