Skavens on D **Updated on Aug. 7**

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:25 am

REading a few posts on Grumbledook's survey in the General Section, I was wondering if you could give me some advice on playing defense with Skavens.

I just lost a critical game against Dark Elves 4-3 in OT mainly because I have problems setting up a good defence with these fury guys. we use the experimental "kicking team sets-up last" rule for OT, but still, he got me!

Here's a look at my team (* denotes skills gained after last game):

Thrower w\Accurate, Block (*) (17 SPP)
Thrower no skill (0SPP)
Gutter w\Block, +1AG (*) (16 SPP)
Gutter w\Block, Sprint, +1 MA (*) (33 SPP)
Gutter w\Block, Catch (16 SPP)
Gutter no skill, -1 AV (1 SPP)
Blitzer w\Claw (14 SPP)
Blitzer w\Mighty Blow (8 SPP)
Lineman w\Guard (11 SPP)
Lineman w\Dirty Player (10 SPP)
Lineman no skill X3
Rat Ogre w\Guard (*), -1 MA
3 RR, 70 K in vault (waiting to replace that injured Runner).

What are your favorite D schemes? Advices? They're more than welcomed.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:46 am

Maybe something like this:

L=linerat
Lg= line w/guard
Ldp= line w/DP
B= blitzer
RO= Rat Ogre
T= Thrower
Gr= Gutter Runner

Collapse your players in on any break through the middle....

(Edited on second thoughts)

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat May 09, 2009 3:36 am

There is no way I'd be leaving all the gutter runners on the bench. They are the best players.

I'd probably swap out both throwers at least. Then its unskilled line rats. If you are doing that they you might want a bit tougher LOS - line rat - guard rat - rat ogre meaning you can field all 4 gutters. I'd hide the behind the blitzers & line rats.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:16 am

I'd second Ian's position. Moreover, that's a ten-man lineup Digger's got there, so you have an extra safety. I'd only field one Thrower on defense; which one depends a lot on the clock, score, opposition, and SPP track. On offense, I'd field both.

I'd go for a standard Blood Bowl 3-4, the linebackers two squares behind the LOS rather than one against Grabby or Frenzy-happy teams, and the safeties 3 back in any case. I think Digger is bang-on on your LOS and WZs, at least for now. You can put GRs (any but the 1TTD-guy) in at safety, and protect them with your inside LBs by putting the safety next to the WZ.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- LR LR LR -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- BM LG --|-- TH -- -- -- DP --|-- RO BC --
-- -- -- --|GR -- -- -- -- -- GR|-- -- -- --

or

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- LR -- LR -- LR --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- BM LG --|-- TH -- -- -- DP --|-- RO BC --
-- -- -- --|GR -- -- -- -- -- GR|-- -- -- --

I might be tempted to dedicate the Accurate Thrower to offense by giving him KOR. It goes a long way to make the 1TTD more reliable. But on defense, Block is definitely better. Follow Block with Fend, of course: once you do, you can move him out to cornerback. That, plus a Guard Blitzer lets you move the RO to inside LB. Get him Stand Firm as a #2 skill, and he'll be really deadly on the inside, where there will be more applications for Prehensile tail. On the corner, he's deadly... so deadly he pushes opponents to the other side and tends to get locked out of plays, or worse, forced to blitz a less important target to get back into the action without triggering WA.

In fact, if you like the idea of moving your RO to the inside, you might even get Stand Firm over Guard now, and use him on the corner until you get another instance of Guard on someone else. ST5 is like Guard x2, and ST5/Stand Firm in context of D-setup is a suitable substitute for Block, except against Juggernaut Big Guys (since there's no push, and since the oppo would probably have to wall the sideline off to get assists; even then, a Juggernaut Big Guy doesn't care about ST3/Block protected by Guard, either). That way you'd be able to get Break Tackle or Juggernaut as a #2 skill, since Guard isn't actually very good on an inside LB.

The reality of the RO on defensive turn 1 is that whichever one of the four available avenues you stick him in, well, that's not where the offense is going.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:58 am

You need a defensive mind set for the Gutter Runners. Right now you have mainly offensive skills on them (+MA/Spring and Catch).

Can't post more now. Someone else wants to use the computer to watch bunnies.

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:15 am

Ullis wrote:You need a defensive mind set for the Gutter Runners. Right now you have mainly offensive skills on them (+MA/Spring and Catch).

Can't post more now. Someone else wants to use the computer to watch bunnies.

Agree with that. I was wondering which skills though. The cathcing one, I was planning on giving him Pass Block. But what about the rest? Should I get a Shadowing one ?

Fred

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat May 09, 2009 8:26 am

tricky with the skills you have taken

personally I try and build my skaven teams to be really good at turning the ball over, so no one turners etc

I like to set up the gutters runners in the widezone near the half way line

they can take advantage of a having a kicker and can really go and harass the opposing thrower

obviously for this sidestep comes in handy to avoid getting frenzied off the pitch

and wrestle would be a useful skill, probably look towards building them up as wrestle sidestep stripball (two heads would be useful on doubles to get at where you want to go)

giving the AG5 one leap (and perhaps big hand if you get a double) keep him behind the LOS and he can also just jump of the opposing players and to pick the ball up as well

as ian said you need them on the pitch and I set up all 4 of mine on defence

mubo · Post by **mubo** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:07 am

One thing you could do is to go onto FUMBBL, find a good skaven coach, and view match history to see how they set up vs different opponents...

Cracol · Post by **Cracol** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:25 pm

The biggest mistake I used to make with Skaven is not using gutter runners on defence. I was of the opinion I'd rather have ST3 than 2....I was wrong. They are fantastic at harassing other players and generally rushing people into making plays they might not want to make.
When you replace that injured GR I'd look at giving the new one strip ball and wrestle, to make him into a ball carrier hunter.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:47 pm

4 GRs on defence are awesome. It means you can reposition your defence to anywhere on the pitch every turn.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:02 pm

10 men... 1, 2, 2, 3... hold on... yeah, shouldn't do this stuff while not under any influences....

Anyway.... hmmmm... the idea is not to give away an easy blitz... sooooo, bring up the dp linerat to replace a thrower and put a couple GRs in the backfield... I guess....

See edited setup....

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:20 pm

Jimany uses this defence with Skaven, and I found it useful:

Code: Select all

......LLL......
...............
..L..R...B..L..
...GG.....GG...

You could not place one GR if you have 10 men.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:22 pm

Ullis wrote:You need a defensive mind set for the Gutter Runners. Right now you have mainly offensive skills on them (+MA/Spring and Catch).

I agree with this. I think you're right to have a dedicated OTTD guy, but that and an offensive Thrower makes two dedicated O players, and that's as much effort as you can ever put on offensive development.

Get Wrestle for the rookie GR; when he dies, try to skill his replacement and get him Wrestle. Get SS at 31 for your Catch guy... frankly, I think Catch was a big mistake (it'll take to 51 to get Diving Tackle), but firing a player for developing is even worse. The AG5 guy shouldn't get SS; get him Leap (of course).

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:36 am

Oh, and you really do need Kick on the team. It should be the first non-doubles skill for the first linerat to skill up. Actually, beginning Skaven teams should aim at skilling one linerat fast just to get Kick. It makes Skaven defence so much easier.

I don't think the defensive set up matters so much as the skaven are such an easy team to redeploy, especially when not too many linerats are marked as usually happens in the first defensive turn. Keep the Gutter runners near the sidelines safe from the blitz if possible. Then run them into the back field where the opposing thrower is desperately trying to pick up the ball and get into a cage and blitz his ass with any combination of Dauntless, Wrestle, Side-step, Diving Tackle and Strip ball.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:44 am

Most of the time I keep the RO behind the 3 rats on the LOS, so it can move to both sides.
I do that with all the BGs, but with a RO it's easy to get him where you want.

Agreed on kick: Skaven need kick as their first skill. It's just too good to ignore for them.

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Skavens on D Updated on Aug. 7

Skavens on D Updated on Aug. 7