Worried about the state of fouling

[SillySod]

thought you said it was too weak or random so some games you will just lots sent off without effecting the other team

would that not cause you to lose games as well as win them, ergo in my eyes not an effective strategy

or have I misunderstood you?

I think you misunderstood me a little.

My trick is to limit the damage when the dice turn against you. However, as long as the damage vs sendoff odds are in your favour then fouling will win you more games than it loses.

If you have a DP and reserves then generally its a good idea to gangfoul one of their better players. It should end up in your favour more often than not and their loss should affect the game more than your loss in any case. If this is successful then usually there is another player who is also worth fouling... etc. If you cut your losses at the first sign of trouble then there are the following possible outcomes:
1 - your DP gets sent off and you play the drive a man down
2 - your DP gets sent off but removed one or two key players (I'd call this successful)
3 - your DP doesnt get sent off at all or perhaps not until hes booted three or more players from the pitch

The problem is that #3 is very nasty and occurs suprisingly regularly without requiring sub-optimal play. Result #1 happens frequently too but tends not to be game changing and (crucially) doesnt happen often enough for it not to be worth a pot shot. Potentially you could go for an all out foul strategy and do it every turn reglardless of sendoffs which would risk losing the game... but would pay off more times than you lost out I'm not sure what would happen if both teams adopted a foul heavy stance but I dont have a great picture full of skillfull play

Of course all this requires you to have the resources to foul (i.e. expendable DP linemen and a bench). IMO the optimal number of players for most teams is 14 which tends to include multiple linemen. Its generally cost effective to give one of those linemen DP.

I'm reccomending the eye or some other harsh send-off measure to weed out the #3 cases. Equally I think it would be nice if your one or two fouls had a decent chance of removing who you're fouling.

[Grumbledook]

Ok that makes more sense

Still wish IGMEOY was in there (think everyone but jervis does?)

if that was still there could bring back the +1 to fouling for the fouler as well

course nothing is gonna happen with regards to this anyway ;]

[mattgslater]

course nothing is gonna happen with regards to this anyway ;]

This is the house rules forum....

Something came out of this. I got lots of great new ideas, and I'm sure my crowd will find something they can agree on. Thanks, SillySod!

Here are some more variants to play with:

1) Players may assist their own fouls; that is, if the fouler is not in an enemy TZ, he adds +1 to the Armor roll. It's a nice compromise between the old way and the new way. If you want to buff Dirty Player, you could use this rule to say "Dirty Players may not be pulled off" and not spread the fouling around too much.

2) Doubles mean nothing. Instead, after resolving the foul, the victim's coach rolls 1d6. The fouler is sent off if the roll is a 6 or higher after modifiers. Add +2 to the roll if the victim is carried off the field. If you break armor, you now have 11/36 to be ejected, and you have 1/6 if you don't, so the ejection odds are unchanged, but there will be fewer streaks, as KOs and Cas worsen your odds to stay on the pitch. It does weaken Dirty Player, but DP needs a buff anyway and this just helps make some working room.

With option 2) or with IGMEOY, or with that 10+ roll I mentioned earlier, you can also let players use Piling On on a foul. This buffs it with respect to MB, but doesn't add to its combo value with MB. It also means that there's an S skill for fouling, which will be good for fluff without adding to the real power-level of bashy teams.

[Joemanji]

How about:

"If a player rolls anything but a double (on AV or Inj) when making a foul, the ref sends him to the sin bin immediately. Place him in the KO box to represent the length of time it take for the ref to let him out."

You'd add back the +1 for fouling as basic.

You could instead say that the fouler goes to the Reserves box, or that you make an Injury roll for him to mimic the amount of time he is sent off for. I'll run the numbers later.

[mattgslater]

Ref With An Axe
Ejection is for wimps. Instead, the referee walks around with a big, nasty axe and is allowed to take one whack at any player he catches fouling. The axe delivers nasty wounds, but the ref doesn't catch everything and he's not always on the spot with the axe. After resolving each foul, the victim's coach may roll 1d6. If the result is a 6, the ref strikes the fouler! Roll another d6 and apply the total of the two dice to the Injury table. If the foul results in an Injury, the ref is likely to be more aggressive, and hits on a 4-6 (mind you, if the first roll is a 4, the total injury roll will tend to be lower). Secret Weapons use the same rules they use now. ("So you have an axe, huh?" <sound of chainsaw>)

If you take RWA, maybe you should make Bribes 50k each, limit 1 unless you're Goblins, and unusable on a foul (I suppose you could pay the ref to say he's sorry...). Instead, teams that want to foul a lot should go for Wandering Apothecaries or Merc DPs. Sneaky Git says that no Injury roll is made unless the victim is also Injured.

If you want to buff Stunties, you could add a Ref exception to the Stunty penalty, on the premise that the little guys are harder to hit with the axe. Or you could make the Ref hit only on a 6, even if there is an injury.

The big winner would be Skeletons, I'd think. I don't think it's a big problem: the new Khemri are kind of wimpy, and having the best fouler would help shore them up. Undead would benefit, but only a little, a the developed Undead structure has room for at most one Skel starter, and it's often the Kicker.

1296 perms, where C is the number of successes on the AV roll (out of 36).
To draw a RWA penalty
108+3C: Fouler takes a Cas (Roughly 1/40 5+ fouls will kill the fouler, barring Apoth or Regen)
72+4C: Fouler KO'ed
36+5C: Fouler Stunned
1080-12C: Nothing
---------
1296

At effective AV1 (after DP), C=36. 36 ea. killed, permanent, MNG; 108 BH, 216 each KO, Stun.
At AV4, C=30. 198 Cas; 192 KO; 186 Stun.
AV7 C=15. 153 Cas; 132 KO; 111 Stun.

To draw an ejection in the current rules:
216+6C: Fouler ejected
1080-6C: Nothing

It might be a bit tough. If so, then it's a great cover for re-introducing SPPs for fouls. I mean, that is entertainment! If that's not your cup, you could use it as cover to reintroduce the native +1, or you could soften it a tad by making it 5+ on an injury roll (doesn't help as much as it sounds, as it skews the injuries away from Stun and to Cas even as it reduces their quantity), or instead make it a roll when the foul is declared, and if not a 6 a re-roll after the Injury roll, if any (still 6+).