Need ideas for nerfing undead - round 4: Proposal

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:29 pm

Hey Stashman,
pleeeease don't derail this.
Just post a new thread about the Horror Team.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:06 pm

plasmoid wrote:Hey Stashman,
pleeeease don't derail this.
Just post a new thread about the Horror Team.

OK! Sorry!

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:15 pm

I'be tallied the "Thumbs up's"
So far, the list looks like this:
Looks like 3 or more thumbs up to make the list

1a 1a
1b
1e
1f 1f (1f)
2b 2b 2b 2b
2c
2d
2e
3c
3d 3d
3e
3g
3h 3h 3h 3h 3h
3i 3i
3j 3j 3j
3k
4a 4a 4a
4b 4b
4c 4c 4c 4c 4c

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:48 pm

The biggest nerf to undead- drop skeletons and make the zombie

5 3 2 8 Thick Skull, Regen 60k (50k?)

He's a better lineman all the way around, but at that price he kills starting rosters and adds on team value late. Usually teams carry 5+ zombies or skellies, so that's 100k in TV hit. VERY significant.

I even like the following:

4 3 3 8 Thick Skull, Regen 60k Adds a new (usually unnecessary) ballhandling option to the team, but adds on a ton of TV. The flipside? the team gets better at the high TV's, where 100k isn't that important, but a few AG 3 Dodge zombies or +MA players really shine.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:19 pm

Zombies are slow and not agile (keep MA4 and AG2)

Give zombies Bone-Head

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Decay is the most logical nerf for Zombies. But then Zombies aren't usually the problem - it's the Mummies beating the hell out of anything unfortunate to be on the LOS opposite them.

~Andromidius

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:23 pm

Why on earth would a long term deteriation skill act as a short term nerf? Decay would only hurt them where they are weakest

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:24 pm

Fine, call the 5 3 2 8 Thick Skull, Regen piece a Skeleton!

The point is, a linemen who is more valuable, while not being good, is a nerf to this team. Of course you could just increase the cost for no reason! But given that it's already occurred one time, that seems unreasonable.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:25 pm

Decay on a fodder piece doesn't really do it for me, especially with Regenerate and Raise the Dead bolstering your ranks.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:18 am

SillySod wrote:Why on earth would a long term deteriation skill act as a short term nerf? Decay would only hurt them where they are weakest

It doesn't. But it's the only logical nerf to Zombies. Their stats as they are suit the piece, and turning them into a 'positional' doesn't feel right to me (especially considering their raising of the dead).

Ghouls are fine as they are, and reducing them to 0-2 only hurts long term (and people who have four Ghoul models). Wights are balanced as they are, could maybe do with a small price hike but nothing major. Skeletons are rarely taken anyway, bar in more 'finesse' styled Undead teams that like faster linemen.

So if you want short term nerfs, there's only one place to look. Mummies. Simply changing them to Tomb Guardians would probably do it.

~Andromidius

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:29 am

So if you want short term nerfs, there's only one place to look. Mummies. Simply changing them to Tomb Guardians would probably do it.
~Andromidius

Or make them 0-1, as stated they are great Big guys (no negatraits) even without G access...

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:30 am

Hi guys,
by all means dicuss, just be aware that there has been a week for compiling suggestions, and now we're picking from that list.
Cheers
Martin

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:46 am

I don't really like the poll options, sorry! I think Loner + General makes the team stronger long-term, and only is a real nerf until the mummies skill up once. Dropping 2 ghouls is too much longterm (IMHO) and doesn't hurt short term. Same with Decay on the zombies. Wights are boring without STR access. No ghouls and 4 wights is arguably a better team, but it is certainly less fun.

7 3 3 8 GA ghouls? I think it's a more boring piece, but I guess that is what I would choose. For me, the pieces need to stay fun. That's why I like better, more expensive linemen.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:52 am

Or make them (mummies) 0-1, as stated they are great Big guys (no negatraits) even without G access...

Was thinking this myself.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:48 am

Jural wrote:I don't really like the poll options, sorry! I think Loner + General makes the team stronger long-term, and only is a real nerf until the mummies skill up once. Dropping 2 ghouls is too much longterm (IMHO) and doesn't hurt short term. Same with Decay on the zombies. Wights are boring without STR access. No ghouls and 4 wights is arguably a better team, but it is certainly less fun.

7 3 3 8 GA ghouls? I think it's a more boring piece, but I guess that is what I would choose. For me, the pieces need to stay fun. That's why I like better, more expensive linemen.

I kind off agree. At least with most of it. Options 1,3 and 5 does not solve the problem suggested.

The loner/general acces shifts from nerf to boost to fast. Maby take away mighty blow and ad general acces with no discount could do the job?
Taking away two ghouls does very little to the starting roster and hurts the team long term.
Decay on zombies does litteraly nothing in the first game and next to nothing untill the problem is turned upside down. So that would actulally just make the problem bigger.

But after all I do find, that 2,4 and 6 does the job.

Talk Fantasy Football

Need ideas for nerfing undead - round 4: Proposal

Which (short term) nerf suits undead the best?