all skaven dungeonbowl challenge!

jammydodger · Post by **jammydodger** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:24 am

title says it all (and nothing).

having played a dungeonbowl summer-filler last year i was considering doing the same again. one of the options i considered in tandem with that was an all skaven version; but with different skaven teams for different clans. the intention was not that these teams would be balanced (between themselves), nor would they ever play outside of this unusual setting. basically there are 6 ideas for teams:

1) team of the council of 13 - normal skaven team from lrb5

2) eschin team - no rat ogre, 4 gutter-runners, no thrower, 2 assassins (line-rat + stab, secret weapon)

3) moulder team - rat ogre, 2 gutter-runners, all players have mutation access on skill rolls

4) skyre team - no rat ogre, 2 gutter-runners, thrower + accurate (mechanised scope thingie), blitzer + claw (some contraption), secret weapon thrower with hail mary pass (converted warp-fire thrower)

5) pestilens team - no rat ogre, 2 gutter-runners, all line-men have decay, blitzers have frenzy (plague monks), globadier (sp? linerat + bombardier and secret weapon)

6) mori (warlord) team - no rat ogre, 2 gutter-runners, 4-6 blitzers

do these seem comparable teams, or is there one which you think is far better than the others?

thanks

cws / jammer

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:24 pm

There was an old copy of Citadel Journal that had rules for 'all Skaven' leagues. I happen to posess a copy.Maybe you could see if these rules fit what you are looking for:

All costs are as per the normal skaven team. All teams may also hire the standard skaven star players.

Clan Mors
0-12 Clanrats
0-2 Throwers
0-4 Blitzers

Special: All Mors clanrats may take strength skills as normal skills, rather than doubles.

Clan Pestilens
0-16 Plague Monks (clanrats)
0-2 Throwers
0-2 Censer Bearers (as goblin fanatic)

Special: Any Clan Pestilens player may take Foul Appearance as if it were a general trait. (also says frenzy MUST be taken on a double roll, but as frenzy is G now, I'm not sure what to do with that).

Clan Moulder
0-12 clanrats
0-2 Throwers
0-2 Rat Ogres

Special: Any Clan Moulder player may take Mutations on any roll, not just a double. However, any mutation gained in this way may not be a duplication of any mutation posessed by another player on the same team. Doubles may produce duplicates as normal.

Clan Skyre
0-16 Clan Rats
0-2 Throwers
0-1 Doom Wheel (dwarf death roller)

May hire outsede the 'normal' star player pool and may hire (suitably converted versions of): Barik Farblast & Bomber Dribblesnot.

Clan Eshin
0-16 Clan Rats
0-2 Throwers
0-6 Gutter Runners

Special: All Eshin Players may take Agility skills as normal skills, rather than doubles.

There are also some special rules for the leages, if you play more than one league that is. These awards are given out at the end of each league (and stripped from the teams owning them at the end of that league to be handed out again).

The Rusty Dagger:
This is awarded to the individual Skaven who earns the most fouling CAS scores over the season. While the team holds it (IE, the player is alive) then the teams FF counts as one higher than normal in all games.

The Eshin Dagger:
Awarded to the Player with the most foul attempts in the last season (ie ANy foul, not just fouls that break armour). The player gains the stab skill (at no extra player cost, in effect a 'free' skill outside his normal skill limit and SPP total) for the next league. If the player is from Clan Eshin, then this also confers +1 FF like the rusty Dagger.

Favoured of the Horned Rat:
This is bestowed upon the individual player with the most mutations gained over the last season (winner to be decided randomly in the event of a tie). The winner gains the Pro ability for the next season (at no extra cost, in effect a 'free' skill out side his normal skill limit and SPP total).

Most Unsportsmanlike Conduct:
Awarded to the team with the most sendings off throughout a season. The team gains a free bribe ber game for the whole of the next season.

Most Entertainingly Slaughtered Team:
This is awarded to the team with the most permanent injuries gained over the last league (including niggling injuries, stat decreases, or deaths). This should be a cash equivalent equal to exactly half the cash prize for the league winner.

jammydodger · Post by **jammydodger** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:34 pm

thanks for those... came up with some stats for these teams - minor mod versions and more extreme patches:

Normal Skaven Team:
0-16 Linerat 50k 7 3 3 7 None G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GP ASM
0-4 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-2 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GS APM
0-1 Rat Ogre 160k 6 5 2 8 Lots S GAPM

Eschin Team:
0-16 Linerat 50k 7 3 3 7 None G ASPM
0-2 N-Runner 70k 8 2 4 7 Sneaky Git GA SPM
0-2 G-Runner 90k 9 2 4 7 Dodge, Fend GA SPM
0-2 Blitzer 100k 7 3 3 8 Block, Shadowing GAS PM
0-2 Assassins 70k 7 3 3 7 Stab GA SPM

Moulder Team:
0-16 Giant Rat 30k 6 2 3 5 Dodge, No Hands GM ASP
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GPM AS
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GAM SP
0-2 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GSM AP
0-2 Rat Ogre 160k 6 5 2 8 Lots S GAPM

Skyre Team:
0-16 Linerat 50k 7 3 3 7 None G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands, Accurate GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-2 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GS APM
0-1 WF Thrower 80k 7 3 3 7 Hail Mary Pass, Secret Weapon G ASPM
0-1 Globadier 70k 7 3 3 7 Bombardier, No Hands, Secret Weapon G ASPM

Pestilens Team:
0-16 Linerat 40k 6 3 3 7 Decay G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-2 Blitzers 100k 7 3 3 8 Block, Foul Apperance GS APM
0-2 Plague Monk 100k 7 3 3 8 Frenzy, Disturbing Presence GS APM

Mors Team:
0-16 Linerat 60k 7 3 3 7 Wrestle G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-4 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GS APM

are these broken?

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:45 pm

No Stunty on the Giant Rats?

And I like the look of the Mors team, very few sources of turnover with so much Wrestle, a skill which is good against all the Dodge of the other teams.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:14 am

clockwork steve wrote:Eschin Team:
0-16 Linerat 50k 7 3 3 7 None G ASPM
0-2 N-Runner 70k 8 2 4 7 Sneaky Git GA SPM
0-2 G-Runner 90k 9 2 4 7 Dodge, Fend GA SPM
0-2 Blitzer 100k 7 3 3 8 Block, Shadowing GAS PM
0-2 Assassins 70k 7 3 3 7 Stab GA SPM

Those assassins are pretty bad for the other teams. 2 stabs equal a lot of pain against AV7 opponents. They're cheap too. Additionally, having Diving Tackle linerats could be pretty nice too.

Moulder Team:
0-16 Giant Rat 30k 6 2 3 5 Dodge, No Hands GM ASP
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GPM AS
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GAM SP
0-2 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GSM AP
0-2 Rat Ogre 160k 6 5 2 8 Lots S GAPM

I think the Giant rats are too weak, especially as there are only 4 non-big guy players. I'd give more blitzers or at least runners. M access on the runners is not too big a deal, but I see lots of fun (and groaning) in having two Rat Ogres on the field, although the Wild Animal will mean they'll be a lot less useful than just one would be.

Skyre Team:
0-16 Linerat 50k 7 3 3 7 None G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands, Accurate GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-2 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GS APM
0-1 WF Thrower 80k 7 3 3 7 Hail Mary Pass, Secret Weapon G ASPM
0-1 Globadier 70k 7 3 3 7 Bombardier, No Hands, Secret Weapon G ASPM

I'd never see myself take the WF Thrower. Too expensive, worthless skill in HMP and Secret Weapon (Skaven are pretty good at short drives). The Bombardier is not too good either against other skaven teams. Maybe take Secret Weapon off both of them?

Pestilens Team:
0-16 Linerat 40k 6 3 3 7 Decay G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-2 Blitzers 100k 7 3 3 8 Block, Foul Apperance GS APM
0-2 Plague Monk 100k 7 3 3 8 Frenzy, Disturbing Presence GS APM

The Plague Monks are a bit of a liability in the beginning, especially given their cost. The linerats are weak too.

Mors Team:
0-16 Linerat 60k 7 3 3 7 Wrestle G ASPM
0-2 Thrower 70k 7 3 3 7 Pass, Sure Hands GP ASM
0-2 Runner 80k 9 2 4 7 Dodge GA SPM
0-4 Blitzer 90k 7 3 3 8 Block GS APM

This team will start hurting a lot of rats very soon. A access on the throwers is really good too and the Wrestle linerats will kick ass.

All in all, I'd take the Eschin team any day, followed by the Mors team. I think the others are too weak compared to them. The Skyre and Pestilens are Tier-2 or Tier-3 compared to them. Although I've never played Dungeon Bowl, so I have no idea how that affects things.

Ikterus · Post by **Ikterus** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:03 am

I think you should tweak the teams a little bit more. Eschin and Moulder are fine though.

All suggestions below are based on clockwork steves post above

Remove the runners from Pestilens and Mors. They should pay a bit in speed.

Give Skyre 0-4 Throwers

Pestilense needs an overhaul... The Linerats are worse than rotters (AV 7 and decay is gonna hurt).
I suggest something like this (no costs, I'm no good at those...):
0-16 Linerat (normal ones)
0-2 Throwers (normal ones)
0-4 Plague Monk 7 3 3 8 Block, Foul Apperance, Disturbing Presence
0-2 Censer Bearers (goblin fanatics)

Mors. No runners, 0-6 blitzers.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:46 am

Heh. I just realised that the Moulder team is really close to the Underworld team right now. I do think the Giant rats would need Stunty. Otherwise the team is just too weak.

The Skyre list wouldn't benefit from 4 throwers as two are plenty. I don't see anyone needing (or even using) more than 2 really.

Am I right in thinking that Ball & Chain players would not be too good in Dungeonbowl?

Ikterus · Post by **Ikterus** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:59 am

Ullis wrote:The Skyre list wouldn't benefit from 4 throwers as two are plenty. I don't see anyone needing (or even using) more than 2 really.

I was thinking fluff. And four palyers with Sure Hands is not too bad is it?

I could see myself having four great passers on the pitch.

Justin Kase · Post by **Justin Kase** » Sat May 23, 2009 7:52 am

Like the idea a lot

We actually did an all Skaven Deathbowl match at GenCon a few years ago, and had a followup the next year (which I believe might have had the rules loosened to not be Skaven only), don't recall if they came up with a name for the event - but I know the trophy was called the Underworld Trophy;)

Got links to the travelling trophy below :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ ... Zoom-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ ... Right2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ ... _Right.jpg

The award started as a poker chip found at GenCon, and was to be added to each year - missed doing this last year as everyone got BBed out. Maybe we'll have it again this year - pending on if the current champ shows up