A team to deliver pain...

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:39 pm

I'd rank nurgle above chaos in causing damage (MBBL stats do as well). 1) Better warriors 2) Cheap fouls.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sat May 23, 2009 1:07 am

I can only speak to our league, but my Chaos squad from a season back had 141 casualties in 31 games and that was during one of the bashiest season we have seen in some time.

The season before the Mad Hatters had 71 casualties in 28 games, but they had just hit their stride when real life kicked in. Though I doubt they would have gotten to the numbers the Chaos squad had, they would have started racking them up.

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Sat May 23, 2009 1:04 pm

I have played several leagues with Caos and Nurgle (playing them right now), and having good results with both, and they might even be my favourite teams.
I've only played dwarf and CD one league each.
Now, while trying to develop each of these teams to win, I must confess I got under the impression that both Dwarf and CD menaged to inflict resonably more damage (as in casualtys) than Caos and Nurgle.
In the early stages of the teams thats realy easy to figure out why as none of the warriors have block, so even with St4 the fail a few blocks.
Later on, when the c.warriors do have block, the dwaf/cd blockers have reached guard or MBlow, and kinda keep one step ahead.
But as I told before, its just from my experience so I might just have been extra lucky with one team than the other.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat May 23, 2009 2:21 pm

Chaos has a few advantages as a team developing for bash over the long term. Not all of these advantages appear to benefit blood-letting directly, but bear with me: they all increase the long-term body count.

1) Anyone can score or QP, except maybe the guy with Mighty Blow. So anyone with two Cas can be dedicated as the scorer to go up (throw to him with the XA guy), and the guy with 5 SPP can retrieve, run up to the back of the cage and chuck to the Extra Arms guy (3+/2+=5/9 without TRR, 5/6 with). Dwarfs? Not so much.

2) ST5/Horns/MB/Frenzy/Claw = death on wheels vs. AV9, takes only 6SPP on a guy who wants to block every turn. BOBs hate that guy. Supported by a ton of ST4/Block/MB/ (not really that hard to get to, compared to a BOB), he's not even all that tempting a target. A healthy Chaos team will have 1-2 similarly ugly Warriors at the 150k range by the time this guy gets hired (150k winnings on most Chaos teams) and skills. Plus, all that ST makes it easy to protect him (this is one of the big problems with the Rat Ogre).

3) You need one less assist on a blitz than most teams, and you can take this bennie with anyone, so against a Chaos defense the opponent has to dedicate an extra man to ball control. This makes it easy for Chaos to control the breadth of the field, which is the key to getting the maximum number of blocks.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sat May 23, 2009 3:11 pm

Chaos is in the unique position of either becoming one or two things: a joke or a terror.

Developed Chaos teams they don't suffer losses early on will turn into a killer team after twenty or so games. But a few early losses (especially Chaos Warriors) or poor luck resulting in low SPP generation means the team stagnants and founders with little hope of ever recovering.

And I learnt that the hard way. Early development Chaos is tear inducing. But all your opponants know that if you're persistant enough you'll eventually turn the tables on them and break their teams' backs over your knee.

So, theoretically, Chaos is the most bashy team out there. But in practice they struggle to live up to their potential, and are outshone by Dwarves, Norse and Orcs for a long while.

Still, it's a challenge. And hopefully my team will eventually turn into the unholy terror that its supposed to be one of these days.

~Andromidius

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat May 23, 2009 3:42 pm

In terms of raw potential to inflict harm, Norse are pretty impressive, at least early-on. The lack of S access on non-Frenzy players hurts.

One thing that's great about Orcs and Dwarfs is their ability to get Grab early. Just one guy with Grab and one guy with Frenzy, and you confound any shallow defense that doesn't have positioning skills on the line. This makes caging much easier against some teams, as there are those (Skaven!) who will just set a deep backfield and let you have your 3 cas and cage up where you will. And the one turn of pounding they save is counteracted by the near-guarantee that you'll be able to cage up right.

Ragnar Northwind · Post by **Ragnar Northwind** » Sat May 23, 2009 7:39 pm

I would say that the Chaos dwarfs would be the best in delivering pain. They have same starter skills as the dwarfs, but they can get mutations. Claw-Mighty Blow-CD? Nasty.
Norse would be good, but from my opinion, the pain delivering 'aint funny if you die too. And norse will.
Dwarfs. You can have so many players with block or block/tackle, and slayers. They are the best bashy team,I would say.
Chaos.....is good becuase of the high strenght, but they lack in the starting skills. But because of the rapid progression, they have the good possibilities of becoming more better than dwarfs.
Nurgle is very good at delivering pain. You have about 6 guys that smash and hack the enemies generaly, and the rotters foul.

bashy IS nice.

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm

Ok then.
We've gone through many pros and cons about the most bashy teams, so it's time to move on to the second part of my post.

Considering a new team of Caos Dwarfs, the normal develop might be (give or take) more or less like this (as in the apropriate post in this forum):

Chaos Dwarf Blockers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw
Hobgoblins: Fend, Wrestle, Dodge
Bull Centaurs: Block, Break Tackle, Dodge
Minotaurs: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
( Hobgoblins and Bull Centaurs should take any and all stat increases. Chaos Dwarf Blockers and Minotaurs should ignore +AG or +MA. )

So, how about if the team was ment to crush other teams?
What skills would you change?
Would the orded of their choice remain the same?

A.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:05 pm

If I'm honest, I don't think Fend is a good skill choice for Hobgoblins. Wrestle or Block (especially) will help in the bashing, and a few Dirty Players will assist in fouling your opponants into submission.

I'd also probably front load on Mighty Blow as well if you're out to cripple opposing teams, and take Guard as your second skills.

Also, stat increases for Hobgoblins may not be ideal. Maybe AG, but otherwise they are cheap and disposable, and you don't want to be gaining too much team value from them.

~Andromidius

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:33 pm

Well that team advance was a copy+paste from here:
viewtopic.php?p=440084&sid=6b23f7a3c6f0 ... 17d#440084

Obviously it wasnt planed to this "deliver pain" intention, so I'll try to start that myself, and hope you help me out along the way...

Chaos Dwarf (Pain version):
Hobgoblins: Block, Tackle/Sure Hands/Strip Ball/(1/2 Dirty Player), []
Chaos Dwarf Blockers: Mighty Blow, Guard/Piling On/Stand Firm, [Claw]
Bull Centaurs: Block, Break Tackle, MIghty Blow []
Minotaurs: Guard, Stand Firm, Break Tackle(?), [Block]
(Note:Hobgoblins and Bull Centaurs should take any and all stat increases.
Chaos Dwarf Blockers and Minotaurs should ignore +AG or +MA).

So, any comments on this advances?
Change/add anything?
Anything special for "doubles" to Hobos or BC's?

A.

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:16 am

Comments anyone?