In the 10 buff/nerf threads, I found the candidates by consulting the data for LRB5.
This final thread is a matter of personal opnion only - but I think that orcs are a very powerful team, and that most likely their newbie appeal are skewing their numbers.
So, as an intellectual excersize, what would you suggest for a league looking to nerf the orc team?
Cheers
Martin
Nerfing orcs. How?
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plasmoid
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Nerfing orcs. How?
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voyagers_uk
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mattgslater
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Small nerf? No Goblins.
Big nerf? 0-2 Blitzers or 0-2 BOBs
Tier 1.5? All of the above.
My opinion? Former is less fun (Goblins are more cool than useful), latter is playable. Played in a 0-2 Blitzers format, changed my strategy but didn't stop me from winning.
Big nerf? 0-2 Blitzers or 0-2 BOBs
Tier 1.5? All of the above.
My opinion? Former is less fun (Goblins are more cool than useful), latter is playable. Played in a 0-2 Blitzers format, changed my strategy but didn't stop me from winning.
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plasmoid
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Keep it coming, I'm looking for inspiration 
Orcs is actually the only team we've tweaked in my local LRB5+ league.
The thinking behind the tweak was:
1. They're just a tad too good.
2. 15 non-linemen is just bollocks.
3. I liked how orcs (pre-DZ) were defined by lacking one of the cardinal positions. They lacked catchers, much like humans lacked blockers. I'm sure many will disagree, but to me, adding gobbos was very unaestaetic for that reason. So - here's what we did:
1. Removed the throwers.
2. Cut the gobbos to 0-2 60K 6237 dodge, stunty, right stuff, sure hands; A
Cheers
Martin
Orcs is actually the only team we've tweaked in my local LRB5+ league.
The thinking behind the tweak was:
1. They're just a tad too good.
2. 15 non-linemen is just bollocks.
3. I liked how orcs (pre-DZ) were defined by lacking one of the cardinal positions. They lacked catchers, much like humans lacked blockers. I'm sure many will disagree, but to me, adding gobbos was very unaestaetic for that reason. So - here's what we did:
1. Removed the throwers.
2. Cut the gobbos to 0-2 60K 6237 dodge, stunty, right stuff, sure hands; A
Cheers
Martin
Reason: ''
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Joemanji
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Oh Martin. You just can't help yourself can you? 
That would make the Orc team better IMO. I have taken Goblins in tournaments before as runners even without Sure Hands. With it to start .. 
That is some mean offence ... cage up slowly and then Stunty your way home if need be.
That would make the Orc team better IMO. I have taken Goblins in tournaments before as runners even without Sure Hands. With it to start .. That is some mean offence ... cage up slowly and then Stunty your way home if need be.Reason: ''
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spubbbba
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Why not just drop the throwers straight off?
Orcs have enough positionals as it is and they don't really need throwers anyway.
Also you could either drop the Troll or Goblins. TTM should be for stunty teams only or if you hire stars through inducements.
A small nerf would be making Blitzers 90K, it always galls me that they are cheaper than human Blitzers and humans really seem poor when compared to Orcs.
Orcs have enough positionals as it is and they don't really need throwers anyway.
Also you could either drop the Troll or Goblins. TTM should be for stunty teams only or if you hire stars through inducements.
A small nerf would be making Blitzers 90K, it always galls me that they are cheaper than human Blitzers and humans really seem poor when compared to Orcs.
Reason: ''
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Digger Goreman
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My ancient mentor strongly suggests removing goblins... says Orcs don't need ready access to Agility skills....
Black Orcs and Blitzers to a max of 2 each... I'd like it....
Drop throwers... probably a good idea....
And, yes, Blitzers should cost 90k....
In coming up from late 3rd edition, iirc: Jervis is a HUGE Orc fan and that's why they're somewhat "over-buffed"....
And I actually like them....
Black Orcs and Blitzers to a max of 2 each... I'd like it....
Drop throwers... probably a good idea....
And, yes, Blitzers should cost 90k....
In coming up from late 3rd edition, iirc: Jervis is a HUGE Orc fan and that's why they're somewhat "over-buffed"....
And I actually like them....
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SillySod
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Orcs are easy rather than excellent. As such they probably only need nerfing in leagues with only newer players.
The only team I've ever really struggled against orcs with is dwarfs. Every other team I've used has found orcs to be a challenge but a very achievable challenge... once you learn to exploit the weaknesses in the team theres not alot even top orc coaches can do about it. It isnt a coincidence that my hobgoblins three wins last weekend were all against orcs.
The major orcish strengths are durability, strength, strength access, and a decent agility (control skills). The critical weakness is speed although frequently coaches trust in that av9 a little too much. I find the trick is to pull them out of position slowly while keeping yourself in a good position to handle a misfield. A screen is remarkably effective against orcs. Alternatively you can focus on whittling away their numbers.. this takes a bit of courage but you can really hurt teams with only 11-12 players or those whose reserves are filled up with goblins. Personally I would never remove the goblins from the roster because they arent especially good at playing control. Goblins TTM value is limited too, you are effectively paying 40k for the privilege and most teams get a kicker at some point anyway.
Possible nerfs:
- drop the troll (boring)
- take TTM away from the troll and any orcish star players (boring, goblins should get eaten)
- 0-2 blitzers
- fend instead of surehands on the throwers
- take G access away from black orcs (I like this one best)
- give things price hikes (meh)
The only team I've ever really struggled against orcs with is dwarfs. Every other team I've used has found orcs to be a challenge but a very achievable challenge... once you learn to exploit the weaknesses in the team theres not alot even top orc coaches can do about it. It isnt a coincidence that my hobgoblins three wins last weekend were all against orcs.
The major orcish strengths are durability, strength, strength access, and a decent agility (control skills). The critical weakness is speed although frequently coaches trust in that av9 a little too much. I find the trick is to pull them out of position slowly while keeping yourself in a good position to handle a misfield. A screen is remarkably effective against orcs. Alternatively you can focus on whittling away their numbers.. this takes a bit of courage but you can really hurt teams with only 11-12 players or those whose reserves are filled up with goblins. Personally I would never remove the goblins from the roster because they arent especially good at playing control. Goblins TTM value is limited too, you are effectively paying 40k for the privilege and most teams get a kicker at some point anyway.
Possible nerfs:
- drop the troll (boring)
- take TTM away from the troll and any orcish star players (boring, goblins should get eaten)
- 0-2 blitzers
- fend instead of surehands on the throwers
- take G access away from black orcs (I like this one best)
- give things price hikes (meh)
Reason: ''
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mattgslater
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The problem is that there are three top skills on a Black Orc and only one of them is G. That would just make Black Orcs predictable.
Reason: ''
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What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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I had difficulties with Orcs as well. With every bashy team I struggled extremly. On the other hand did score teams perform very well versus Orcs (rookie Dark Elf, rookie High Elf teams always put up tight matches versus experienced Orcs.)
I figured the problem is the line-up Orcs can come up with. It's 4 Black Orcs ST 4, AV9, 1 Troll ST 5, AV 9, 4 Blitzers Block, AV 9 and 2 Lineman AV 9. I saw such teams perform extremly well and the weakest link is the lineman and he has an AV of 9.
So if your problems is similar to mine I would suggest to force Orc teams to use more weak chain links, such as:
0-2 Blitzer
Throwers +1 MA.
I don't think they need a nerf on speed but strength and durability. And that's what it does.
I figured the problem is the line-up Orcs can come up with. It's 4 Black Orcs ST 4, AV9, 1 Troll ST 5, AV 9, 4 Blitzers Block, AV 9 and 2 Lineman AV 9. I saw such teams perform extremly well and the weakest link is the lineman and he has an AV of 9.
So if your problems is similar to mine I would suggest to force Orc teams to use more weak chain links, such as:
0-2 Blitzer
Throwers +1 MA.
I don't think they need a nerf on speed but strength and durability. And that's what it does.
Reason: ''