Chaos, no Block/Wrestle/Dodge -- fun idea?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:37 pm

Should I try it? I kind of have to play with a hand behind my back if I want to have any fun, and I'm wondering how it would come out. I can't imagine that I'd lack for skill choices. If I do, how should I develop? Fixed-schedule league, 1.1M, not especially bashy (DE, Necro, 'Zon, Pro Elf or Skaven, something else that's probably hitty... Dwarfs perhaps), opponents will have some skills (at 1.1M TV), 10-12 matches + playoffs. If I do this, it'll be the Baalifornia Golden Calves, blogged in the Team Blogs forum. It's likely that I'll take all rookies, but I have a +AG Beastman available... so I could take the +AG guy, 6 rookie Beastmen, 4 Warriors and 4 TRRs, or I could go for 6 rookie BMs, 4 Warriors, a Mino and 3 TRRs with 10k banked.

Has anyone here ever played a Chaos team with a commitment to take no Block/Wrestle?

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:53 am

If you are going to tie your hands like that, I would say to take the +AG beast.

That aside, I don't see why it couldn't be done, but it will definitely be a challenge.

Ironically, not taking block or guard will get you to tackle sooner actually making you better against a few of the matchups you listed ('zon, elf, skaven). I think your game against the dwarves will come down to how much your dice like you and the rest of the matchups should be ok.

As for development, tackle, stand firm, grab are all good choices. Mighty blow should actually be more prevalent on a team like this since compared to a normal chaos squad since you need to work for a numbers advantage and you will be less reliable at doing that.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:50 am

With Claw, Guard, and Mighty Blow available as normal rolls... not to mention Juggernaut, Piling On, and Tackle, I'm not so sure the team is that much worse.

If you want to tie your hands, choose a squad which doesn't have such an obvious non block build

Vampires comes to mind... a Vampire team with no block... that should tie a hand behind your back.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:41 am

Actually, that's part of the point. I'm not just trying to figure out how much I have to handicap myself: heck, I could just play a Halfling team with nothing but 'Flings and TRRs. At some point my fellow coaches would feel insulted: I'd feel insulted if somebody set out to build a crap team just so they could play me. But I do think I have a bit of a cushion, so I can do the suboptimal if it's fun.

My objective is to do something fun. I've been having a good time modeling and playing a Chaos team, and I really like the idea of the team, but I'm a little perturbed by the need to run out and grab the key skills, which really hurts in the short format I'm playing in.

So I thought: "Why don't I just forgo Block and make 'I don't have Block' a fundamental truth across my team?" I decided Wrestle and Dodge are similar in terms of "fundamental" value, so should similarly be excluded. It is a bit of a handicap not to take the consensus best two G skills, but it's manageable because of all the skill variety on each player.

I don't mind spreading the skills around; I think I could easily make and live with a restriction that says "no more than two players at a given position with a given skill." I think I'd also be cool with making an exception on the Mino, taking Block if he gets doubles. Or I could just spread the skills around and not worry about the specifics.

So if I take the +AG BM, I'll use him as a conduit, throwing to him for SPP, then having him run up and throw to the intended scorer for the TD points: 4 TRR should allow me to play this game once a half, at a minimum. What's got me considering the alternative is that I could grab a 5SPP Beastman and give him Extra Arms (similar value) and still have enough money left to trade a TRR for a Mino. My commitment to not taking Block means that I'll have some crazy Frenzy combo options available quickly, like a Grab CW or a BM with Guard and Two Heads. Still scratching my head on that one... other opinions?

fitz · Post by **fitz** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:15 am

lots of tentacles?

because its chaos, so tentacles have to be there somewhere, probably better choices, but could be unusual ?

Ben

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:28 am

I have set myself to limit block as a first skill choice. It works fine until you meet a developed hitting team. In a fixed league you can of course somewhat tune your development to the schedule, but you have to keep it in mind. The biggest challenge I se with an AG+ beast from the start and no block will be getting SPP on any of your rookies.

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:56 am

I might go for the +AG beast rather than extra arms one.
You could always get the mino a bit latter in the league.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:53 pm

Duke Jan wrote:I have set myself to limit block as a first skill choice. It works fine until you meet a developed hitting team. In a fixed league you can of course somewhat tune your development to the schedule, but you have to keep it in mind. The biggest challenge I se with an AG+ beast from the start and no block will be getting SPP on any of your rookies.

Yeah, I wouldn't score with that guy until he was within about 6 SPP of advancing, or if it was the only way to make it happen; rather, I'd use him to distribute the ball, receiving and throwing QPs.

Maybe that's how I should do it: "No Block or Wrestle on the first two skills except on players who need a double to get it."

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:54 pm

Here's another idea.
Let the Winds of Chaos decide for you.
Each time a player skills up and rolls something other than a stat or a double, roll a d6.

1-2 mutation
3-5 skill
6 bread & butter skill (Blocks, Guard, etc.)

It could leads to some very interesting players.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:38 am

I like Storch's idea.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:54 pm

I kind of like that, though I might tinker with it before using. My opponents aren't idiots: they just range from "pretty raw" to "a peg below me." So if I take hardly any Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, etc, it'll probably be too much handicap. And whatever is the best skill that's not on that list, it's likely to end up getting spammed across the roster and will give my newer coaches the wrong idea about it's relative coolness.

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:52 pm

I like Storch's idea too. It is fluffy and can be sold to your fellow coaches as such, without saying "You guys suck" explicitly or implicitly. It could also lead to a very chaotic team.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:05 pm

You can also present your team as an "experimental" exercise to see if certain precepts are "viable".... Don't tell them too much, if anything, about reasons other than the above.... It can then become a learning experience, i.e., "normally a coach would be inclined to take skill "x", but I'm trying out skill "y" as an alternative." Then your team becomes a coaching clinic in itself....

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:44 pm

Yeah, I think I'll do something like that. I think I'll have a nice crop of disciples by the end of this season. Look out WC Quake II and Spike 2010! Next year, the San Diego School will arise out of paradise, on the far side of nowhere*, to take the Far West by storm! Bwahahahahahaha!

*Is "nowhere" the Pacific, the desert, or OC/LA? You decide.

OK, so by the 2d6 roll?
2-3: whatever I want.
4: not Dodge, Side Step or Leader.
5-6: not Block, Dodge, Guard, Leader, Mighty Blow, Side Step or Stand Firm unless the player already has two skills not on this list.
7-8: any skill (including Mutation) no player already has, unless the player already has two skills not on this list.
9: a Mutation no player already has.
10+: Whatever I want.

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:59 pm

Well I can tell you one way to handicap yourself and at the same time improve your gaming skills.

Don't think Chaos would be a good team to do it, but go No TRRs.

It is devastating, really. If you can win without them, then you are really going somewhere.

I did it as a theme on my Nuffles Blessed. Not best coach rating, but it taught me a ton on risk management. Yes I allowed all the bread and butter skills, and still got crushed a ton. Granted I did it when I shouldn't have, less skilled as a coach, but it grew my learning curve rapidly.