Future of Rule Making

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:55 pm

fumbbl only hasn't updated cause skijunkie the guy who made javabowl was too busy to update the client they use

there is a LRB5 client in progress though

cyanide are also selling their version as well

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Grumbledook,

Is the BB released by Cyanide yet, can't find anything due to a filter, (can't believe I can get here really).

I understand that the Javabowl is in process, is it going to progress to 6.0 or come out before 6.0.

The point I got from the thread was which form is valid to decide the game rules. Unless data is gathered on the rules as they stand, and then the testing of rules under question, older gaming data doesn't help a lot in deciding newer games.

And unless you are using the rules in the same way as the orginal game, why should the tabletop change rules to make it easy for a computer game to play?

I mean we all know that PBeM makes certain skills harder to use effectively, without extending a game to eternity.

But from what I heard of Cyanide, it won't just be a turn based game, and as such a lot of rules discussed for GW BB is not going to work the same way. Should we take in that data?

I understand the feeling that only a few make all the decisions, but I haven't felt that those few went totally blind into the meeting room, with all lights off.

Unless Cyanide does keep the game fully tied to the rules that are in the LRB of the most recent edition, I can't see using that data to make critical changes, that would not normally be done by "house" rules. It being seperate from GW, can't see why it wouldn't use "house" rules for what it needs to make that game fun.

Same as letting the tool decided the side step, the placing the ball before setup, and the others I am forgetting at the moment.

Sorry I shouldn't have posted, I should have flung my arms around a few seconds then be over it.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:03 pm

you obviously haven't been reading all my posts ;]

I was just pointing out some facts, no opinion on anything there

the cyanide game should be out in a couple of weeks

it is turnbased and was very close to the rules when i last played it

closer to the rules than PbEM as I am led to believe (not used pbem)

I have no idea if it will be updated to LRB6, I can only assume this will happen if there is demand from the user base

I was a huge sceptic towards it for ages and ages and it was only after I got to play it that I changed my mind. No need to be a drama queen suggesting you should have flung your arms around it! ;]

the client being made for fumbbl for LRB5 will be updated to 6, don't know when it will be released, before or after LRB6 is out

everything is being done to make it as close to the rules as possible, fixing things that were slightly different with the previous javabowl client

but you are right that current rules should be used for deciding changes

Wylder · Post by **Wylder** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:06 am

PBEM is way closer to the actual rules than Cyanides game.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:17 am

I thought the cyanide game was fairly accurate, choosing not to use some skills was the biggest thing that kept getting me

and not all the inducements were available but otherwise I couldn't fault it on the whole

or was your way closer an exaggeration? ;]

Teydyn · Post by **Teydyn** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 am

Wylder wrote:PBEM is way closer to the actual rules than Cyanides game.

You know that because you were in the Beta?

Or do you just believe that, because its an realtime action game? And disregard that its fully turn based too...

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:45 am

Grumble, I read all your post. I wasn't claiming it was you post that got me encouraged me to get vocal. Flinging my arms around wasn't in an embrace, its to keep my fingers off the keyboard.

I am not saying the computer game can't be like the tabletop game, nor am I saying javabowl won't get back to the current rules, but to be asked if they will be considered when making the next rules, with the main emphisis on the fact that there might be more people playing those medias than the actual table top leagues, is making the statement: "Use our data to make the new rules even if we aren't following the current rules".

I would love to be able to play on a javabowl setup, but I can't block off that much time, reason I play PBeM.

I am hoping the Cyanide game is good, still don't think I be able to play on line, due to time block to play but it will be great to have something out there. From what I read about it on the web, it was going to have both Turn base, and real time, seperately, but still when you do that, is the data going to be seperate for both, and would one change rules based on both sets of data, or if they don't seperate the data, then how would one include any of the data.

And with the orginal poster basicly making the statement that a few were deciding the rules for the massive with only a very minor glob helping influnce this small group, that not enough data and opinions were getting heard. My only "gripes" were 2.

1. The data and opinions need to be based off the current rules.
2. If the people want to be an active part of the rule making, they should seek out the rulemakers, not wait to be sought out.

But really after saying all this negativeness, I still have hope for the future.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:02 pm

the turn based and real time are separate fwiw

apparently guys on fumbbl take under an hour to play a game now, with 40 mins being more the norm apparently

i used to take 90 mins back when I played on there, but then my games tended to be quite chatty

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:13 pm

My average PBeM turn last me 4~5 mins from download email to sending the file back. I try to keep my turns under 4 mins, which is normally why I do mess ups that some other players never seem to make, but I am having fun, so it doesn't bother me.

Glad to hear the new game will keep those aspects seperate.

Like I said I have hope for the future, not dread.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:33 pm

Wylder wrote:PBEM is way closer to the actual rules than Cyanides game.

Not true (and I am a big PBeM supporter).

Wylder · Post by **Wylder** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:05 pm

Man, which beta were you playing?

Cyanides game didn't even have half the inducement list programmed into it.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:08 pm

the beta is not the full game

the beta was to test the servers with more users on it

it only had 2 races as well!

(I didnt get in the other beta with more races in it and single player stuff though, don't know what that had in it)

but you can't really judge something that the full version isn't released yet