Sitting on the Goal Line, Stalling Tactics. Opinions Wanted.

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:03 pm

Grumbledook wrote:coaches can only stall on you if you defended badly

That is not the point. If I defend badly, then there is more to get for my opponent isn't there? He could win 3-0 4-0 8-0, I don't care. The fact that you are destroying a game for your opponent is what matters to me.

I'm there there to play a game. If I win, hurray, if I loose, no big deal. But to simply wait on the goal line, seeing your opponent is not ever gonna be capable to get anyway near your player to get the ball is just not done.

And I'd even go as far to call my stalling opponent a chicken. Because he hasn't got the guts to play for a victory. Instead he sits on it, afraid to let go, at the expense of the other guy. If that is where BB is going, I want no part of it.

Fortunately a lot of coaches agree with this point of view.

Now I know I'm kicking shins here, and maybe this is not the place to do this, but there are two major things that make stalling worthwhile:

The big prizes that are been given away to the winners.
The NAF ranking. And believe me when I say this, because I've been there.

"Where on table 34 game 5 and you're stalling on me? Why?"
Reply: "Because if I loose this game I'll loose a lot of NAF points."

Makes me think if I still want to remain NAF. Then this could not occur. But because it's the player that thinks this way and not the NAF itself, I'm still remaining a member.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:57 pm

Ummm... I don't put anything into ranking systems or prizes, and I'll stall if I think it gives me the best chance to win.

That's the name of the game. It doesn't matter why you want to win, just that you want to win, and you owe it to your opponent to do whatever you think will win the game (that's the nature of competitive gaming). If that clearly means stalling in a particular situation, then your choices are to stall and risk pissing off your opponent 'cause some people don't like stalling, or not to stall and risk pissing off your opponent 'cause you're not playing hard enough.

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:08 pm

mattgslater wrote:That's the name of the game. It doesn't matter why you want to win, just that you want to win, and you owe it to your opponent to do whatever you think will win the game

That's where you and I obviously think different. I play a game because I want to have a good time with my opponent. If I can win, sure I will, but I will never ever make it impossible for my opponent to even try to have a shot at winning just because I'm so eager that I must win, at all costs. It's a two mans game, so two players should be able to play.

Stalling is for losers who can't defend or even dare to try and defend.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:20 pm

Draco could've wrote:
{Elves are} for losers who can't {roll higher than a "2"} or even dare to try and {actually play a real game of Blood Bowl}

I get that you don't like stalling... however, as shown above, you can put darned near anything in the brackets....

I sit between the two: If it's league/tourney then "game on" and it's your arse/mine (though, if I'm comfortably in the driver's seat and you're of no threat, I tend to relent....); if it's a "fun game" then I'll give commentary on what one might prefer in competition and "play nice" (whatever that means to you/anyone....)

Fondu77 · Post by **Fondu77** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:22 pm

Stallin' with a jerk is acceptable.

Stalling with stunty also

gentleman match will not include this kind of stategy unless both opponent laugh evilish when doing it.

@Draco : +1

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:24 pm

Fondu77 wrote: gentleman match will not include this kind of stategy unless both opponent laugh evilish when doing it.

But that means Trambi can stall all he wants!

Fondu77 · Post by **Fondu77** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:45 pm

Draco wrote:
Fondu77 wrote: gentleman match will not include this kind of stategy unless both opponent laugh evilish when doing it.

But that means Trambi can stall all he wants!

Trambi "look" evilish. His laugh is more a bit of porcinoid i gess

hope he 'll never fall on that one.

Ps : I love you trambi (just in case)

Patchwork · Post by **Patchwork** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:18 pm

I don't mind playing of the clock to give yourself the advantage. It's a valid tactic and you have to try and pressure the ball to make them stop but if you can't and they do it so much/long that the game stops being fun to play then it's gone to far. If a game isn't fun then it's not worth playing and I wouldn't play with anyone, no matter how good a friend, if they always suck the fun out of the game in some way (not just excessive clock control).

Corporate_Penguin · Post by **Corporate_Penguin** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:09 pm

Stalling is very important tactic for bashy teams to get that 2-1 win. Nothing wrong with it. Weak defence allows stalling.

The fun part is when you manage to get the ball, 'cause the opponent chose to stall instead of faster TD, but you stole it. And that look at your opponents face...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:48 pm

The only time I think stalling in itself is truly unsportsmanlike is when the game is totally put away. If you've knocked your opponent down to 5 guys + 3 KO'ed by Turn 12 and have a 2-0 lead already with 11 men on the board, just frickin' score, and go for the takeaway TD on the next drive for a 4-0 win. Worst case scenario: you win 3-1 instead of 3-0, boo hoo. But not scoring in that case is dumb, 'cause you're surrendering potential SPP without improving your odds of winning.

Even "it's over already!" isn't always the best standard. A couple weeks ago, I had a High Elf team against Humans. Turn 15, score 4-0 elves and about to become 5-0. I'd stunned the Ogre away from the action the previous turn, so I knew he'd have to blitz me without MB. He didn't have any natural blocks (the dice didn't like him too much in that game, and he was man-down by Turn 2), so on Turn 8, he was only going to hit one guy. My lineman with the ball had 2 SPP and was in scoring range. I ran a 0SPP lino deep in the WZ next to the endzone, ran the ballcarrier up and threw to him, then on turn 8, threw back to the guy with the ball, and ran in for the score and the SP roll. I had two good reasons for stalling: stalling out improved my SPP prospects, and if I had scored, I'd have to set up a D-line, facing an Ogre and a bunch of angry Blitzers. So I don't feel bad about it at all, and I'd expect an opponent to do the same. For his part, he didn't grumble, 'cause he didn't have time to score anyway.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:48 am

Stalling, or refusing to take the first opportunity to score, is a valid part of the game, and I have no problem with it. Some teams (Dwarfs, Orcs) are utterly reliant on this tactic, especially in a tournament. In fact, I consider it a playing error when an opponent fails to stall when he should, thereby conceding victory (or a draw) to me.

As has been pointed out by Ian and others, stalling when you cannot lose is silly (unless tournament scoring rules encourage such a tactic). Bear in mind, however, that most teams can score easily in one turn (with the aid of a Riot).

But as 'Dook has pointed out, stalling for a whole half should be rare if you are defending properly. In a high proportion of close games that I have played, much of the interest and dynamism comes from one coach trying to stall, and the other coach trying to force him to score sooner than he would like. Sometimes these situations are among the most enjoyable you can get at the table.

Some teams are almost incapable of stalling, mainly through the inherent incompetence of their offense. Nurgle, which I play, is one such team. Some of the Stunty teams I would also put in this category. When such teams get a valid opportunity to stall, it comes as a shock and a huge bonus - they'd be silly not to take the opportunity.

Hope this helps.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:01 am

As has been stated before, there are two kinds of stalls.... The fairy boys (elves) will stretch out your defense and play keep away in the backfield before firing a long (but not long odds) pass for a score....

Methinks the ladies protesteth too much....

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:28 am

In our league, stalling is permitted, unless the game is already won, as stated earlier by Ian, IIRC.

One thing we don't do though, is stalling in OT to bash to hell out of our opponents. In OT, you are entitled your blocks and your blitz, but no stalling by a bashy team just to beat the crap out of an agile one for another turn when they can't stop you.

Fred

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:50 am

What about waiting until end of turn to score? That's often stalling by other means.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:52 am

*sigh*... yes, and it all too often ends on a skull/two.... The penalty for getting "too cutesy"....