Initial Double on a Chaos Pact Troll

quozl · Post by **quozl** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:38 am

Hi guys,

I've a fairly new Chaos Pact team, 14 players, but the winnings have been way better than the SPPs, and I only have:

Ogre - guard
Minotaur - guard
Marauder +ag
DE - leap
marauder - extra arms
marauder - block/guard
2 x marauder - block
skaven - block
marauder - leader

I rolled a double on the trolls first skill. Block is the obvious choice. However I know that with my Chaos it's elves or skaven that cause me the most difficulty, and so tentacles (a double choice for pact) is very tempting.

Tentacles:
Don't have to block.
2+ walk action to really mess with people
Troll is highly resilient and can take a pounding
Tentacles will let me hit more of their players with mine by holding them there. He'll be an expensive beast of nurgle basically.
Will have to get stand-firm next to stop them 1/2d pushing me away.
It's not block, so some variety is fun.

Block:
Much safer to block, and if I get him 3d blocks, he's almost certain to take down someone withut block or dodge.
Combos well with mighty blow.
Future development would be multiple block, followed by piling on, followed by guard.

I think tentacles will do me more good against elves, although an extra mighty blow hit works nicely on elves too.

Strength teams are not such a worry, I can always get guard+MB+claw, and I have 3 big guys.

Block is normally a no-brainer on big-guys. Is it still in this case?

PS I LOVE tentacles on my BoN and my chaos minotaur.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:48 am

The troll is best used to just stick in the middle of a ruck in which case block is the best use for him imo and followed up by guard

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:12 am

If you give him block, I would follow it up by guard and stand firm. You dont wonna put your troll on the ground unless its a claw, mighty blow, piling on thing. and claw is only 3rd choice on double.

I like the idea of tentacles, but block is obviusly the stabil choice. I think you should go for it, and the next skills should be stand firm and then break tackle. If you have ST 5 tentacle you dont wonna be cought up with a single zombie. or elf lino with dodge, you wonna get to those catchers and gutterrunners and war dancers.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:23 pm

Block, especially for pact teams.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:31 pm

Claw. Don't bother with block if you can set up 3 dice blocks relatively easy.

SierraKiloBravo · Post by **SierraKiloBravo** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:34 pm

Your troll needs to act as a defensive barricade moreso than the mino and the ogre, due to the decreased reliability of Really Stupid. Block is the correct choice.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:43 pm

Duke Jan wrote:Claw. Don't bother with block if you can set up 3 dice blocks relatively easy.

but not having block means other teams can knock him over easier

not to mention even with 3 dice block will get him more knock downs

Gaixo · Post by **Gaixo** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:31 pm

Guy in my league gave his troll Pro and is extremely satisfied with it. Same rate of success as a team reroll+Loner, except you don't lose a RR every time.

I would still take Block, though.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Vs. speed? Block. Then they just can't hit him no matter how desperate they get, and he'll do a lot more damage (35% more knockdowns on 2d vs. rookie, compared to Claw's 50% more injuries vs. AV8... I'd rather have the knockdowns). Tentacles would be great on the Ogre if he had BT. But the Troll is too easy to keep out of the action.

I actually think Guard on the Mino was a mistake if you're thinking about Elves. Stand Firm would keep him alive longer by making him unhittable at 1/2d or even 1d, and will also make him much better for cage-fronting, cage-breaking, coverage, and Wide Zone management. Guard helps with some of that too, but not as much, and it puts an even bigger target on this guy's back. Guard is for support players: the Minotaur is your entree.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:38 pm

Duke Jan wrote:Claw. Don't bother with block if you can set up 3 dice blocks relatively easy.

With a Guard player either side of him, that Troll is S7. Assuming no Guarders on the other side...

Yeah, take Block. And thank the Dark Gods for an awesome roll!

~Andromidius

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:27 am

Claw is more effective than block or foul appearance on defence against hitting teams trying their luck on 2 dice against blocks.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:34 am

guess I don't play as many people who like to defend by doing 2 dice against blocks vs big guys ;]

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:03 pm

With Block and a TRR, a 2d against block is a terrible idea if a push doesn't just tickle you. But sometimes a push really matters, and a 2d against block is easier than a 3+ dodge (with a -- remote -- shot at SPP). In a regular blocking battle, not so much, but if it will yield a score or leave the player marked by a cheaper guy, it's worth it.

quozl · Post by **quozl** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:42 pm

This makes me a sad panda, I was hoping there'd be more support for tentacles

Ahh well, I guess I knew block was the sensible option

Mattgslater, I take your point about guard on the mino - I'd considered that when choosing it but I just don't like the minotaur as a blitzer. So I use him as support with guard, and just get him stuck in. The 2+ to blitz is horrible. Although not blitzing with him is pretty horrible too with a 4+ needed to walk!

TBH, I think he's junk, and I only have him because I wanted the 3 big guys and can afford it if he dies. I'll make a block/tackle/mighty blow guy to blitz with instead.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:49 pm

Yeah, minos are a liability, but they offer humongous upside. 3d/Frenzy rocks on offense or defense, blocking or blitzing. As is, a Mino makes a great outside backer, protecting the corner: opponents pretty much have to ignore his wide zone, so you can pack the other side with all kinds of ugly and not see anything go to waste. Frenzy/ST5 is a great way to engineer extra blocks on offense, too... 3d gives you a 19/27 to push if that's what you want, so the second block can send the opponent across the LOS on his feet 361 times out of 729, or about 49%, and when it doesn't happen, you usually get the consolation of a knockdown (322 to knockdown, 46 to skull). From there it's easy to engineer a chainpush to line one of your men (like that Block Troll) up on the inside backer. Then if you get him down, you can blitz the safety on that side, usually a squishy player put into a protected position for a reason. This way, you can hit five players instead of four.

If your opponent doesn't set up 2 back of scrimmage, but instead 1 back, it's even worse, as you can take out the middle LB in a 3-5 or a wide zone backer in a 3-4 (in the latter case, maybe blitz the corner so you can make it very hard for a slower opponent to front up on your cage). If your opponent sets up deep, they're probably gaming to be just far enough back to make it hard to blitz, and this will screw up their math.