Mult. Block, Pass Block, Kick, Grab

[Grumbledook]

turns end after an action which causes a turnover

an action isn't over until the ball has come to rest

so no

[Tripleskull]

So if he handt used his pro skill in the turn the answer would be yes.

an action isn't over until the ball has come to rest

does the rulebook say this anywere? Or does it come from another souce?

[Grumbledook]

common sense ;]

[daloonieshaman]

There is not such thing as common sense!

pg 13 of the book under passing/turnovers

"The turnover does not take place until the ball finally
comes to rest"

back to pro + kick one second

PRO:
Pro is allowed to re-roll any one dice
roll he has made other than Armour, Injury or Casualty
hmm so he can re-roll ANY 1 dice roll (other than the listed exceptions)
+
Kick:
In order to use this skill the player ...(conditions)... met is the player then allowed to take the kick-off.

serious loophole

so a Kick player uses his skill and takes the kickoff (as per kick skill), uses pro (as per pro skill) and re-rolls the dice roll, (as it is not and Armour,, Injury, or Casualty roll).... and it is not a team re-roll (as per the exception listed under kickoff) ... hmmm interesting
exceptions with what appears to be a lack of an exception...

so it says you can and fails to say you can't .... hmmm interesting

boy this is hard to understand

One fellow made a point that you cannot re-roll a scatter (in this case, referring to the scatter die when kicking)
I looked for that in the rules and could not find that you cannot re-roll a scatter. I am sure it is there somewhere, anyone Please help me to find the page and section as I am trying to understand the exceptions or lack thereof.
hmm interesting

[GalakStarscraper]

It comes down to what you are not understanding is the statement "one dice rolls that HE has made"

HE does makes the dice rolls for direction and scatter. Since these are not dice rolls that HE makes HE cannot re-roll them.

Same reason a player cannot use Pro on an apothecary or ejection from a foul from the LRB 4.0 Referee roll ... they are rolls that take place related to a player but they are not rolls that HE has made.

Galak

[daloonieshaman]

It comes down to what you are not understanding is the statement "one dice rolls that HE has made"

HE does makes the dice rolls for direction and scatter. Since these are not dice rolls that HE makes HE cannot re-roll them.

Same reason a player cannot use Pro on an apothecary or ejection from a foul from the LRB 4.0 Referee roll ... they are rolls that take place related to a player but they are not rolls that HE has made.

Galak

He takes the kickoff, he rolls the dice

nice try you cannot refer back to old issues of the rules as they have changed, this is not LRB 4.0 this is LRB 6.0. for your argument we can refer to skill use/rules. your argument with 4.0 is void and invalid

[GalakStarscraper]

Good lord .... that's not a rationale argument. It was an example of how the rules work. Seriously ease up.

After all these years of people understanding without bringing it up that the scatter dice are not a roll made by a player .... we now need to clarify it in the rulebook because you don't understand it.

I'm 100% for a clear rulebook. Heck I sent HUNDREDs of hours re-written every paragraph for the LRB 4.0 to create the LRB 5.0. But there is a point where clarification reaches that slightly over the top phase.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

He takes the kickoff, he rolls the dice

This argument would only be true if the dice rolls involved with the kick were described in the Kick skill ... they are not. So he doesn't make them ... IMO.

In the rules for kicking which were thought about for LRB 5.0 .... there was an away roll to kick the ball during a drive which was a D6 roll ... that roll we allowed the Kick skill to re-roll because it was a roll made by the player. I only mention this to show how the thought process works.

Galak

[Teydyn]

As i have posted earlier.

Pro (General)
A player with this skill is a hardened veteran. Such players are called professionals or Pros by other Blood Bowl players because they rarely make a mistake. Once per turn, a Pro is allowed to re-roll any one dice roll he has made other than Armour, Injury or Casualty, even if he is Prone or Stunned. However, before the re-roll may be made, his coach must roll a D6. On a roll of 4, 5 or 6 the re-roll may be made. On a roll of 1, 2 or 3 the original result stands and may not be re-rolled with a skill or team re-roll; however you can re-roll the Pro roll with a Team re-roll.

You can NOT use pro outside of a turn. The kickoff is not IN a turn, but before.

Just not possible.

[daloonieshaman]

GalakStarscraper lol you kill me
you dig a hole you cannot get out of

open your mind for a second please

New players picks up the shinny rules and wishes to play blood bowl
starts playing and get better and better and knows the rules back and forth
then he plays you and you start preaching ....

"you can or can't do this or that because it was in a previous version of the rules that said you could or could not do that."

He justly laughs in your face and tweaks your nose you silly goose

Teydyn

Under the Kickoff it says you may use pro

[daloonieshaman]

ohh I forgot

Help!
anyone out there find the page/section of LRB 5++ (lrb almost 6) rules that says you cannot use a team re-roll (or pro) to re-roll a scatter

Please help me find this either way as I am trying to find the answer to this question that was brought to my attention

[Darkson]

It doesn't, but nor does it say it can, and it does specifically say that a reroll may reroll any dice made by a player, and at no time does it say that the player makes the scatter roll (for kicking or passing).

[Xeterog]

I can only see a list of players actions and a list of what ends a turn, not a definition of a turn or an explanation of when a turn ends.

So I would like to elaborate on the problem and ask: if a player used pro and failed to pick up the ball, can he then use pro to try and catch it, if it bounces back in his hands?

so,

A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further
actions that turn, and any action being taken ends immediately
even if it was only partially completed. Make armour and injury
rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was
dropped then roll to see where it bounces too normally. Stunned
players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach
may start to take their turn.

doesn't say exactly when/how a turn ends? Color me confused.

as to using pro to pick up a ball but fails, then he could not use pro to catch the ball if it bounced back to him, as you can only use pro once per turn, because the turn sequence is:

a )Receiving Team's Turn
b) Kicking Team's Turn.
repeat A and B one after the other.

it is not:
1) Recieving Team's turn
2) between Receiving teams' turn and kicking team's turn
3)Kicking Team's turn
4)Between Kicking team's turn and Receiving team's turn.
Repeate 1-4, one after the other

[Xeterog]

ohh I forgot

Help!
anyone out there find the page/section of LRB 5++ (lrb almost 6) rules that says you cannot use a team re-roll (or pro) to re-roll a scatter

Please help me find this either way as I am trying to find the answer to this question that was brought to my attention

Can you find one that says you CAN re-roll a scatter roll? Can you find one that says the scatter roll is a roll that a player makes?

Even the kick skill only affects the distance the ball scatters...not the direction.

[Fassbinder75]

Daloonieshaman's argument IMO falls away because the kick off does not occur as part of a game turn therefore it does not meet the parameters to which Pro can be used.

While it is irrelevant to the overall result I believe that comparing the scattering of an innacurate pass to the kickoff scatter is not a good one.
The scattering of an innacurate pass occurs only after the Passer has failed to successfully apply the skill, whereas the scatter reduction of a kickoff is a result of a direct influence of the player applying the Kick skill.