Skills on a Human team

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would like to discuss some tactics regarding the Human team from those of you that have great experience with the LRB 5.0 rules. This is my first season using these rules and I have not been playing BB for a couple of years, though I have played since first edition so I’m not a Rookie.

We are only about seven teams in the league and I only manage to play six games in the first season and lost my first semifinal against chaos, although he thought he lost the game because I won casualties with 3-1.


I have a straight forward team and I now have fifteen players. 6 Linemen, 4 Blitzers, 2 Throwers, 2 Catchers and an Ogre.

I have the following skill spread so far… the one in parenthesis are skills I consider in the future, doubles in bold)

Lineman 1 – Kick (Wrestle, Tackle, Mighty Blow)
Linaman 2 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 3 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 4 – Guard (Block, Tackle, Stand Firm)
Lineman 5 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)
Lineman 6 – (Block, Wrestle, Pro, Guard)

Blitzer 1 – Guard (Stand Firm, MB, Pro, Dodge)
Blitzer 2 – (Guard, Stand Firm, MB, Pro, Dodge)
Blitzer 3 – MB (Frenzy, Juggernaut, Tackle,Dodge)
Blitzer 4 – Tackle (MB, Grab, Strip Ball, Dodge)

Thrower 1 – +ST (Block, Nerves of Steel, Fend, Dodge)
Thrower 2 – (Accurate, Kick off Return, Fend, Block, Strong Arm)

Catcher 1 – Shadowing (Side Step, Block, Fend, Pass Block/Diving Tackle), Nerves of Steel
Catcher 2 – (Block, Side Step, Diving Catch, Dauntless, Nerves of Steel)
Catcher 3 - (Block, Side Step, Pass Block, Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Nerves of Steel)

Ogre – Guard, +AV (Stand Firm, Break Tackle, Multiple Block, Block)


So, how well do you think the spread will be and what skills will I lack?

I have room for another catcher eventually, but I will run with these two for now…

Any other interesting tips for tactics to run with?

I have a Thrower that managed to get a strength increase as his first skill, I would appreciate some insight how he should progress. I also have some problem with how to progress my Blitzers properly with the new rules.

The opposing teams so far is... (subject to change as well over time)

Dark Elves
Chaos
Norse
Amazon
Orcs
Wood Elves

So I need a good spread of my skills because the teams are rather diverse in their normal skill sets.

[TuernRedvenom]

I agree with your linemen development.

As for the blitzers, I think you're on the right track but you're missing a "Terminator". But blitzer 3 could go this route in a pinch. IMO any team with enough STR access should aim for at least 1 player with:
Block (blitzers start with this), Mighty Blow, Piling On, Tackle Frenzy
This guy rips through AV 8 or less teams like hot knife through butter!
I also like to get 3 blitzers Guard as a first skill, because humans really need Guard to stay competitive. I wouldn't bother with Pro though. For the important rolls you'll want to use a team reroll anyway. Doubles should always be Dodge so you can get: Block, Dodge, Guard, Stand Firm.

Throwers are good, although I'd probably try to get the STR 4 player either Mighty Blow or Guard on a double instead of Dodge to make full use of STR 4. But Dodge is a good pick too.

The catchers: I don't think Shadowing is a good first pick for a catcher (it would be a good third pick though). IMO they need Block for survivability first (weakest player on the team will get targeted, especially if he has Shadowing) and especially Side Step (to keep you from being pushed from your target, and just because it's an allround superb skill). Even with those skills I think Diving Tackle is a better choice then Shadowing, but that's mainly because I like to pin my opponents down completely.
I also wouldn't bother with Sure Feet, especially not as a first choice. I would build the second catcher in a ball carrier hunter: Wrestle, Strip Ball, Dauntless.

I like the build on the Ogre: a big, tough roadblock that can support your STR 3 team.

All in all your team looks very solid although on the short term you should try to level as many linemen whenever possible. Once your opponents get more games and skills this will become a lot harder!

edit: oh yeah, 15 players is too much. Drop at least 1 lineman, probably 2 as your league doesn't look too bashy If you're not sure whether you should fire the second one as well, think about it: how many times have you needed that 14th player?

[Lictor]

I have had fantastic success with Humans just recently, won 10 games in a row including the GF, and we have taken almost the same route to develop.
(Except my Wrestle Linemen keep on dieing, Thrower died in final too.)

Ogre - Guard (MulitBlock)

Blitzer - Tackle MB (Frenzy)
Blitzer - Dodge Tackle (Tackle based on facing Lizardmen in the GF) Not sure where to go for a 3rd skill though)
Blitzer - Guard MB
Blitzer - Guard MB

I took MB as a mean to get to my third skill, Stand Firm, more quickly. But I see you and I think about bash that can hold a line (or cage)

Thrower - Accurate (Pray for doubles and KoR)
Thrower - Need to buy a new one lol... But as a Runner Block and Fend are on the way, Dodge on Doubles

We differ on our fast guys though

Catcher - Block Side Step (Diving Tackle Shadowing Tackle)
Catcher - Block +1 St (Has his 3rd skill, normal roll, not sure what to take yet)

I want 2 with Blodge SS and DT so I can hopefully sit one or both on the ball carrier and laugh at their vain attempts to get away.

Catcher +1 ST can potentially be the best scorer or sweeper in my team, I'm not sure which one I want yet.

Last Catcher I want Pass-Block Diving Tackle. Ideally if he can't make the intercept, hopefully he can find himself next to the receiver who will then have a hell of a time trying to Dodge away.

Linemen x 2 - Wrestle (Fend Tackle)
Linemen x 4 Yet to do much useful. I want my Kicker back!!

My good fellow, I dare say you are on the right track

I'm curious to know how you are using your Catchers to give Shadow as the first skill. I'm so afraid of their going squish to give anything but Block first.

But keep it up. You are on the right track. Not sure why you want so much Pro. I see Blitzers as killers with the potential to score. Other then that I like what I see.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I appreciate your insight... I fully agree with the Blitzers, i think they need some more thought... dodge is a given on them on a double I agree.

As for the Catcher, he has done a rather good job being a real hassle to my oponent. I use him to pressure the ball handler. He must then use his blitz against him instead of against my line, that give me the momentum to counter his movement and gives me a tactical advantage. He is a magnet for attention and I see him as expendable so far. If he gets both Side Step and Block then I can develop him to a real monster with Dauntless and/or Pass Block as his fourth/fifth skill. I use him primarily as my defensive catcher.

The second catcher are offensive only, so I might give him Dauntless to break out from a closed space, I'm not sure. I usually team him up with two blitzes. I burst forward in one flank with him and his two guards. I threaten in the other flank with the other catcher and one blitzer.
The middle is held by the linemen and Ogre while my offensive thrower holds the ball deep in the first turn. Second turn I either pass and try to score or I pass the ball to the second thrower with +ST. He then act as a runner with passing abilities. That is why I want to have Dodge and Fend on this guy.

[Jorgen_CAB]

In response to why PRO skill is so good. I have been playing this game a long time and I have some very good experiences with this skill. It is very tactical and increases the chances that you can both dodge, catch, Intercept and knock someone over. You use RR quite often so you get plenty of opportunities to use that skill once you used up the RR for the turn.

I have managed to win games several times because of PRO skill, it is also quite effective in getting SPP to your players.

[TuernRedvenom]

In response to why PRO skill is so good. I have been playing this game a long time and I have some very good experiences with this skill. It is very tactical and increases the chances that you can both dodge, catch, Intercept and knock someone over. You use RR quite often so you get plenty of opportunities to use that skill once you used up the RR for the turn.

I have managed to win games several times because of PRO skill, it is also quite effective in getting SPP to your players.

My experiences with pro are quite different, I used to take it a long time ago but realised if the roll was important I would use a reroll anyway (since pro is unreliable) and when it wasn't so important (say, you rolled a pushback) it increases the chance of turnover as the second result could be even worse. I mainly don't like it because it's unreliable (I try to decrease the luck factor, not increase it ). But to each his own!

And if you want an effective way of gathering spp's, give that MB blitzer PO next and watch him rake in the spp's. MB/PO is the strongest combo in the game atm IMO (it gets even better if you have claw though).

[Carnis]

Linaman 2 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 3 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)

Sidestep is ok, but are you sure its worth skipping a guard-lino?

Lineman 4 – Guard (Block, Stand Firm)

Been struggling with this thought as well, stand firm over dodge on a guard or not?

Lineman 5 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)
Lineman 6 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)

Surely you need a dirty player too, just one is enough + I'm not sure 4x dauntless/pro is such a good investment, maybe tackle/fend instead?

Blitzer 3 – MB (Frenzy, Piling On, Tackle,Dodge)
Blitzer 4 – Tackle (MB, Guard, Strip BallDodge)

Consider piling on before frenzy, it will seriously up your casualty racking ability. But if you're confident you can get more surfs with frenzy, then go for it ofc.. I would go guard before MB for a human blitzer.. MB alone is a bit weak, especially on a running team.

Thrower 1 – +ST (Block, Nerves of Steel, Fend, Dodge)

Forget that this player was a thrower, he should now be a blocker to get max use of ST4. ignore nerves, dodge, go block/tackle style & doubles mb or guard.. This means your 2nd thrower needs to be the runner with block/accurate etc.

Catcher 2 – (Block, Side Step, Dauntless, Diving Catch, Nerves of Steel)

I'd sack catcher 1, and build both as catcher2.. Consider guard on the doubles even with catchers (your most mobile players & blodge/SS does combine). Consider diving tackle over dauntless, diving catch can be nice, but AG4 is so much better for only 20k more price.. So I'm not sure if I would invest in it.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Linaman 2 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 3 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)

Sidestep is ok, but are you sure its worth skipping a guard-lino?

Lineman 4 – Guard (Block, Stand Firm)

Been struggling with this thought as well, stand firm over dodge on a guard or not?

Lineman 5 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)
Lineman 6 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)

Surely you need a dirty player too, just one is enough + I'm not sure 4x dauntless/pro is such a good investment, maybe tackle/fend instead?

Blitzer 3 – MB (Frenzy, Piling On, Tackle,Dodge)
Blitzer 4 – Tackle (MB, Guard, Strip BallDodge)

Consider piling on before frenzy, it will seriously up your casualty racking ability. But if you're confident you can get more surfs with frenzy, then go for it ofc.. I would go guard before MB for a human blitzer.. MB alone is a bit weak, especially on a running team.

Thrower 1 – +ST (Block, Nerves of Steel, Fend, Dodge)

Forget that this player was a thrower, he should now be a blocker to get max use of ST4. ignore nerves, dodge, go block/tackle style & doubles mb or guard.. This means your 2nd thrower needs to be the runner with block/accurate etc.

Catcher 2 – (Block, Side Step, Dauntless, Diving Catch, Nerves of Steel)

I'd sack catcher 1, and build both as catcher2.. Consider guard on the doubles even with catchers (your most mobile players & blodge/SS does combine). Consider diving tackle over dauntless, diving catch can be nice, but AG4 is so much better for only 20k more price.. So I'm not sure if I would invest in it.

You do have some good points...

I do not intend to actually put more than two dauntless on my lineman players, tops. On the catchers it serves anther purpose so you can't really compare them that way in my opinion.
I really like my shadowing catcher, he has done an outstanding job annoying my opponents so far.

As for turning my Thrower into a blocker, that is just a principle thing... I don't want my thrower to become a blocker. So it's not that it would be better to turn him into a runner, it's just that I like him to be one of my Star Players. I hope he get to do a few TD as well.

The same goes with dirty player. I actually handicapped myself and said that my team only play what they consider to be fair, that is... they never foul... even if it means I loose the game.
The funny thing is it's robbing off on my opponents, who foul my team much less than other teams and even excuse themselves when they do... =)
Piling On is a stretch for my team.. one guy with a hot temper (frenzy) can get away with that behavior, the rest would be fired if they constantly pulled that stunt off.

About 'Side Step' on the lineman players. I'm not totally sure about that either. I just feel like diversifying the team a bit with different skills.

I don't want to have an overly bashing team, but not a weak one either.

I do appreciate all your advise...

[Grumbledook]

even by taking a lot of guard doesn't make your team bashy

it works passively as well as a great defensive skill in keeping the ball carrier harder to hit

also the more guard you have the less likely you are to need the more situational dauntless

[Jorgen_CAB]

I hope that 5-8 Guard players will do when I get to that point in my teams development.

When I spoke about bashy I meant that I don't want too many PO and MB combination with my Blitzers. One will be enough I think. I hope to get one with AG4, Would really like to have a blitzer that could handle the ball and score more easily.

I really like to get my team as a sort of 'Jack of All Trade'.

[bjorn9486]

Lineman 1 – Kick (Block, Tackle, Guard)
Linaman 2 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 3 – (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Side Step)
Lineman 4 – Guard (Block, Stand Firm)
Lineman 5 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)
Lineman 6 – (Block, Dauntless, Pro, Guard)

Going to agree with everyone else about Pro. I also would have gotten a couple linemen with block before I got one with kick, but that is my personal feelings.

Blitzer 1 – Guard (Stand Firm, MB, Pro, Dodge)
Blitzer 2 – (Guard, Stand Firm, MB, Pro, Dodge)
Blitzer 3 – MB (Frenzy, Piling On, Tackle,Dodge)
Blitzer 4 – Tackle (MB, Guard, Strip Ball, Dodge)

Looks good. You could possibly take Jump Up on Blitzer 3 once he gets Piling On.

Thrower 1 – +ST (Block, Nerves of Steel, Fend, Dodge)

I would take Nerves after Block like you have scheduled. That way if he gets into the thick of things and can't get out, he can get rid of the ball pretty reliably. He is going to make a great runner for you!

Ogre – Guard, +AV (Stand Firm, Multiple Block, Block)

I don't know if I would take Multiple Block and instead I would consider Break Tackle. Gives you the ability to get him out of the thick of things should he need to plug a hole.

Other than these suggestions, your team looks good. Good luck!

[Aliboon]

Have you thought about frenzy on your ST4 thrower (after block). ST4 frenziers are great as is, but personally I'd have him in your cage as well as his ST4 and surehands will make it very difficult for leaping wardancers and the like to get the ball off him.

Then when you need to make a break for it, he can blitz and frenzy out of the cage and hopefully negate the need to make any nasty dodges.

[bbdave522]

I may be alone on this but I would put more Wrestle and less Block. Especially as a league matures, Block will be an almost universal skill. This means that having the skill which counters it (Wrestle) gives a rather large advantage. On Defense, I cannot think of any situation where block beats wrestle (your goal is to get your opponent down in almost every defensive situation). The exception would be a player with Guard, who works better while standing. On offense, Block is good to keep your ball carrier or key position (i.e. cage corner) standing. Wrestle is more useful to open up holes in the defense, though. I would think that your 4 Blitzers and two throwers are probably plenty of Block (plus anyone who gets Guard). I am almost sure I am alone in this, but I would consider giving some of your Block players Wrestle as a later skill. This gives them the power to choose whether they want to stay up or go down, according to the situation. Anyone who is designed to go after the ball or play primarily defense needs Wrestle, even if they already have Block. I would consider Block on Catchers, but I wouldn't take it as a given.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would agree that Wrestle is a very usefull skill, especially on human linemen. I will definitely consider this skill on more of my linemen as they skill up.

[Joemanji]

Briefly:

You need one killer Blitzer: MB, PO, Tackle, Frenzy.

Dauntless is a great second skill on catchers. MA8 with the ability to blitz anyone is excellent, especially when you already have Block.