turnover 4 minute rule

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:27 am

it still alters the block result you rolled though

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:18 pm

Seriously... a 60+ page rulebook is not a challenge... but an agreement to reroll the block dice with the failed bone head is a problem?!

Then it is suggested that this time saving device is not for you....

bbdave522 · Post by **bbdave522** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:38 pm

I agree with Digger here. His system is fair because he does not know what the result of a block will be until he also rolls the bonehead.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:46 pm

its not fair if he reolls double skulls and fails bonehead

normally you would perhaps try to reroll bonehead then he would have rolled double skulls

this way he gets to reroll the double skulls as well, or decide to just go bonehead which also ignores the double skulls

if his league doesn't mind that though it is up to them, just I wouldn't expect to be allowed to do that in other leagues/tournaments

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:49 pm

It sort of depends how you feel whether the dice were "fated" to be double skulls.

If you roll a 1 and double skulls and if it's an important block, you might try the loner reroll to not be RS, boneheaded etc and then you'd have to reroll the block dice (just as if you'd rolled a double POW I take it).

I can see it speeding the game up and if players are happy with it then that's fine.

Oxynot · Post by **Oxynot** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:00 pm

Grumbledook wrote:its not fair if he reolls double skulls and fails bonehead

In that case, it would just be too tempting not to reroll bone head if you see double skulls. And definetely reroll it, if there'd be double pow

Because surely you would not make him reroll a good result either?

Hmm, it would be nice to abuse this system: say I'd save time and rolled armour and injury at the same time, with different color dice. Then if the result was no armor break, but a casualty would be waiting, I'd be mighty tempted to use Piling On to reroll the armour.

Just a thought

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:53 pm

IF... YOU... ROLL... BONEHEAD... I.E., "1"... THEN... IT... DOESN'T... MATTER... W... T... D... THE... OTHER... DICE... ROLLED...!

If you don't reroll the bonehead... the block ISN'T thrown... it can't be... you "stand there and do nothing".... To think otherwise is overtly... *sigh*.... If you reroll the bonehead, you MUST reroll the other dice... that's been blatantly noted in the gentleman's agreement....

Repeat, ad infinitum: IT... JUST... SPEEDS... UP... THE... PROCESS....
********************************

Oxynot... it's not an all inclusive "system".... Obviously, gentlemen wouldn't stoop to such....

bbdave522 · Post by **bbdave522** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:10 pm

As above, Digger is 100% right. To clear this up: he rolls bonehead and block dice. If bonehead fails, he ignores the block dice. If he rerolls bonehead, he also rerolls the block dice (the first roll is ignored because the block never happened). Same would apply to piling on were this system to be used in that instance. There is no possibility for cheating in this system. It works by the book.

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:35 pm

Grumbledook wrote:its not fair if he reolls double skulls and fails bonehead

But it would be fair if he did the same with 2 clear pows? I really don't see a problem here. He's just throwing more dice at the same time and getting the same results he will deserve.
Guess how frustrating this one would be:

1, Pow, Pow

I'll reroll that.

1. Pow, Pow

Shit; boneheaded with that grand result.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:43 pm

I assume if you roll a 5 skull skull and use a re-roll, the 5 stands and you just re-roll the block die?

What Digger does is fair. The odds are the same at the end of the turn as if he had rolled the die as in the rulebook. I'm not sure if it is much faster, but I'm sure it can help.

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:47 pm

Jural wrote:I assume if you roll a 5 skull skull and use a re-roll, the 5 stands and you just re-roll the block die?

Would be weird to reroll a succeeded bone head.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:22 pm

I don't care if it saves time, I don't care if the odds are the same (are they?), it doesn't feel right, and I wouldn't allow it in any league or tourney I ran.

The only time I allow "rerolls" to be used at the same time is if it's a skill that, if failed, will cause a turnover, such as Sure Hands or Sure Feet (on the 2nd GFI or into the EZ).

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:59 pm

THE KING IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:14 am

seems like rolling the block is out of order
start your action
roll bonehead
declare action "Block"
Count up the overall strength
roll the blocking dice

The whole multiple dice things just leaves a bad taste in my mouth

If you are trying to speed up the game don't take so long deciding on what you are going to do or which player you are going to move where. The thought process of deciding to roll a die should not be dependent on the "future" you see in front of you.
You cannot get to step 2 of the flow chart until you know the options of step one

Wylder · Post by **Wylder** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:44 am

Its not wrong or unfair at all.

Think of it like this. What if every time I blitz the ball carrier, I throw block dice at the same time as throwing a d8 (scatter dice). Assuming I knock the other guy down, we already know where it scatters to. If I dont knock the other guy down, the d8 is an extra dice that means nothing.

Now lets say I roll double skulls. Obviously the d8 is useless. I reroll the double skulls (along with the d8 ) and the same thing applies to the reroll. If I knock the ball carrier down, the d8 represents scatter. If I don't, then the d8 represents ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

The same is true with digger and his block dice.

If bonehead passes, the block dice stand.

If bonehead fails, the block dice are irrelevant. They will not affect any aspect of the game, even if bonehead is rerolled. They represent nothing.

Rolling dice that have no impact on the game, has no impact on the game.

There is no problem!