I am losing too often. Every time. I have the moving the turn counter down and can avoid the crowd surf but what I need are the top 3 tips to avoid embarasing white washes.
I have bashy teams (Orcs & Chaos) + Amazons and Humans. Any hints appreciated. I am taking on Orcs, Humans, Dark Elves and What are basically Dwarves but using Dalek figures so some are a bit odd
HELP
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Duke Jan
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TuernRedvenom
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I wrote this a while back:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/267577
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/267577
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Jural
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OK, the first thing is that you are playing 4 different teams all at once, right? Orcs, Chaos, Amazons, and Humans...
I would drop Chaos (they require a very good grasp of team building, as they start with no skills.) I would concentrate on one of your other teams, probably Humans or Orcs because they are more surviveable with higher AV (and no dodge to tempt you!)
OK, so now you are focusing on one team... Every turn, you need to be thinking about what your goal is. Basically, you should be
a) securing the ball,
b) taking the ball from the other team,
c) moving the ball closer to a score (this doesn't mean closer to the goal line necessarily)
d) making it more difficult for your opponent to score.
e) causing casualties.
Of the above goals, be the most careful about e). Casualties with low TV teams are dependent upon luck. Many games feature 3+ casualties, many games feature 0. You can tilt the odds in your favor with team building, but by and large, you are stuck with the roll of the die.
OK, so now that you know what you are trying to do in the turn, you need to take your no risk moves first. Is there a player who is on the ground out of a tackle zone? Stand him up and move him to an important place. Is there another player who is standing with no tackle zones around him? Move him to where he needs to go, unless this player must pick up the ball ot throw a block.
Once the no risks moves are gone, you need to understand which moves are critical for success of your turn, and also have the lowest risk of turnover. AS an example, if you have a block player taking a 2 die block, he only fails 1/36 times, and almost never fails with a re-roll. Do these important hits first. Picking up the ball, even with a re-roll (sure hands), fails 1/9 times. So make sure to plan for failure and not try to pick up the ball too early in your turn!
It's countless judgement calls like that which make you improve as a player. Put yourself in good positions and you will win more, and also begin to understand what are the critical and non-crititcal moves in a turn.
I would drop Chaos (they require a very good grasp of team building, as they start with no skills.) I would concentrate on one of your other teams, probably Humans or Orcs because they are more surviveable with higher AV (and no dodge to tempt you!)
OK, so now you are focusing on one team... Every turn, you need to be thinking about what your goal is. Basically, you should be
a) securing the ball,
b) taking the ball from the other team,
c) moving the ball closer to a score (this doesn't mean closer to the goal line necessarily)
d) making it more difficult for your opponent to score.
e) causing casualties.
Of the above goals, be the most careful about e). Casualties with low TV teams are dependent upon luck. Many games feature 3+ casualties, many games feature 0. You can tilt the odds in your favor with team building, but by and large, you are stuck with the roll of the die.
OK, so now that you know what you are trying to do in the turn, you need to take your no risk moves first. Is there a player who is on the ground out of a tackle zone? Stand him up and move him to an important place. Is there another player who is standing with no tackle zones around him? Move him to where he needs to go, unless this player must pick up the ball ot throw a block.
Once the no risks moves are gone, you need to understand which moves are critical for success of your turn, and also have the lowest risk of turnover. AS an example, if you have a block player taking a 2 die block, he only fails 1/36 times, and almost never fails with a re-roll. Do these important hits first. Picking up the ball, even with a re-roll (sure hands), fails 1/9 times. So make sure to plan for failure and not try to pick up the ball too early in your turn!
It's countless judgement calls like that which make you improve as a player. Put yourself in good positions and you will win more, and also begin to understand what are the critical and non-crititcal moves in a turn.
Reason: ''
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Master Wang
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mattgslater
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Risks
5+ might as well be "impossible" unless you're totally hosed and have nothing left to do. Orcs should never ever ever make an opponent's choice block.
There are a scant few exceptions, but never do anything involving a 4+ roll to avoid a turnover unless either the alternative is losing the game or you can't hurt your guy and you have nothing to lose. Even then you should only do it at the end of your turn. Exception: picking up the ball at end of turn if you're MA6 or better and have a TRR, or throwing a pass at no net modifier, when you have a TRR and would prefer an inaccurate pass to holding onto the ball (like if you know your guy is going to get pancaked).
3+ rolls are a little safer, but they're still risky. A 3+ roll is minimally justifiable if 4 or 5 of the following are true:
1) You're in a pickle.
2) You're screwed if you don't do it and you can't think of a better way.
3) You will probably score if it works.
4) You will definitely score if it works.
5) Failing doesn't cause knockdown.
6) You're well-positioned to cope with failure.
7) It's late in your turn.
8) It's the end of your turn.
9) You have a TRR you can spend.
10) You have a TRR you can spare.
1d blocks without Block follow the same rules. They are better than 3+ dodges if you don't think you can put yourself in a better position by moving than by dodging; otherwise, it's a question of relative value, as you have a 1/3 chance of knocking down and a push might matter. Still, don't game around it. A pair of 2+ rolls is similar, but a little preferable if you don't have a TRR and a little harder if you do.
2+ rolls or 1d blocks with Block should be performed early if they're very important and you have a TRR, and later if either of the above is not true. Don't sweat doing such a thing at the end of your turn if you have a good reason, even without a TRR, even if there are consequences for failure.
2d blocks without Block are like 2+ rolls on steroids, and should be done first if of equal priority.
2d blocks with Block should be done first of all die rolls, unless some other plausible (2+ or better without TRR, 3+ with) action will lead to a TD.
Passing
As a rookie with Orcs, you may find yourself tempted to pass. After all, you have a Thrower! Watch out. That's not to say "don't do it," but there are some guidelines to follow.
Pass only at the end of your turn when you give no chance of interception and have a re-roll available for the pass and/or catch, and even then only under either of two conditions:
1) you're desperate and passing will lead to a score; or
2) the ball has at least a 5-in-6 shot of going somewhere you would rather it be than where the ball-carrier has it. This means that you should own the area where the intended receiver is! This is especially true if you can't re-roll a 3+ catch attempt.
You should consider short passes to be coaching failures unless you're passing on a 2+, or a 3+ with the Pass skill. If you need a 3+ to make a short pass without Pass, or a 4+ with, you didn't get close enough and it's your fault. That doesn't mean you should never do it, but you should chide yourself silently when you do.
5+ might as well be "impossible" unless you're totally hosed and have nothing left to do. Orcs should never ever ever make an opponent's choice block.
There are a scant few exceptions, but never do anything involving a 4+ roll to avoid a turnover unless either the alternative is losing the game or you can't hurt your guy and you have nothing to lose. Even then you should only do it at the end of your turn. Exception: picking up the ball at end of turn if you're MA6 or better and have a TRR, or throwing a pass at no net modifier, when you have a TRR and would prefer an inaccurate pass to holding onto the ball (like if you know your guy is going to get pancaked).
3+ rolls are a little safer, but they're still risky. A 3+ roll is minimally justifiable if 4 or 5 of the following are true:
1) You're in a pickle.
2) You're screwed if you don't do it and you can't think of a better way.
3) You will probably score if it works.
4) You will definitely score if it works.
5) Failing doesn't cause knockdown.
6) You're well-positioned to cope with failure.
7) It's late in your turn.
8) It's the end of your turn.
9) You have a TRR you can spend.
10) You have a TRR you can spare.
1d blocks without Block follow the same rules. They are better than 3+ dodges if you don't think you can put yourself in a better position by moving than by dodging; otherwise, it's a question of relative value, as you have a 1/3 chance of knocking down and a push might matter. Still, don't game around it. A pair of 2+ rolls is similar, but a little preferable if you don't have a TRR and a little harder if you do.
2+ rolls or 1d blocks with Block should be performed early if they're very important and you have a TRR, and later if either of the above is not true. Don't sweat doing such a thing at the end of your turn if you have a good reason, even without a TRR, even if there are consequences for failure.
2d blocks without Block are like 2+ rolls on steroids, and should be done first if of equal priority.
2d blocks with Block should be done first of all die rolls, unless some other plausible (2+ or better without TRR, 3+ with) action will lead to a TD.
Passing
As a rookie with Orcs, you may find yourself tempted to pass. After all, you have a Thrower! Watch out. That's not to say "don't do it," but there are some guidelines to follow.
Pass only at the end of your turn when you give no chance of interception and have a re-roll available for the pass and/or catch, and even then only under either of two conditions:
1) you're desperate and passing will lead to a score; or
2) the ball has at least a 5-in-6 shot of going somewhere you would rather it be than where the ball-carrier has it. This means that you should own the area where the intended receiver is! This is especially true if you can't re-roll a 3+ catch attempt.
You should consider short passes to be coaching failures unless you're passing on a 2+, or a 3+ with the Pass skill. If you need a 3+ to make a short pass without Pass, or a 4+ with, you didn't get close enough and it's your fault. That doesn't mean you should never do it, but you should chide yourself silently when you do.
Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Digger Goreman
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Fassbinder75
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One other thing I have found with early stage Orcs, that can also be applied to most teams (especially bashy ones) is that if possible put some guys around the intended receiver of the pass before you throw the ball. While its not foolproof, a dropped pass will often land in a spot with many Orcish tackle zones making it much tougher for your opponent to block you out of the way and pick up the ball after the turnover happens.
If you're engaged in a melee over a ball on the pitch and his side is more mobile I find its better to put men around the ball rather than trying to pick it up. Let him try, bash him - then pick up the ball once his dudes are on the floor or off the pitch.
If you're engaged in a melee over a ball on the pitch and his side is more mobile I find its better to put men around the ball rather than trying to pick it up. Let him try, bash him - then pick up the ball once his dudes are on the floor or off the pitch.
Reason: ''
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Smeborg
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The commonest fault is not taking "safety" moves (i.e. moving unmarked players) before taking risks (blocking or moving the ball). If you don't do this, it will seem like you are playing with half a team.
The next most important thing for newcomers to BB is securing the ball. Most heavy defeats by newbies in games that I have observed are due to not paying enough attention to this.
Third is maximising block power, which essentially means getting as many blocks as you can, for example on the line of scrimmage. Newbies often miss how to get secondary blocks, whereas an experienced player will never miss them, and hence will get more casualties. Especially important for slow bash teams (Orcs, Dwarfs, Chaos etc.)
Lastly, a general issue, but very important, is control of space. The more of the board that you control (via well positioned players and their tackle zones), the more options that are denied to your opponent. And the more options that are available to you in your next turn(s).
I would not like to give more advice than this without very specific examples. The slower teams (Dwarfs, Orcs, Chaos) are not the easiest ones to learn with, because they are unforgiving unless you move the whole team with accuracy. Don't worry, it will make you a stronger player in the long run.
Hope this helps and all the best.
The next most important thing for newcomers to BB is securing the ball. Most heavy defeats by newbies in games that I have observed are due to not paying enough attention to this.
Third is maximising block power, which essentially means getting as many blocks as you can, for example on the line of scrimmage. Newbies often miss how to get secondary blocks, whereas an experienced player will never miss them, and hence will get more casualties. Especially important for slow bash teams (Orcs, Dwarfs, Chaos etc.)
Lastly, a general issue, but very important, is control of space. The more of the board that you control (via well positioned players and their tackle zones), the more options that are denied to your opponent. And the more options that are available to you in your next turn(s).
I would not like to give more advice than this without very specific examples. The slower teams (Dwarfs, Orcs, Chaos) are not the easiest ones to learn with, because they are unforgiving unless you move the whole team with accuracy. Don't worry, it will make you a stronger player in the long run.
Hope this helps and all the best.
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Smeborg the Fleshless
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Heff
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Guys you are all stars. I shall study closely and see how I get on. Have to play four as I have only one opponent and we are playing four teams each for variety. I will however concentrate on learning one and just chalk the others up to experience. Orcs I feel. (although I do love my amazons)
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mattgslater
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Thanks, Digger! You can use it, but let me clean it up and take away the orc-specific stuff. I also remembered something about 1d blocks (they're 3+ rolls if you're trying to push, and 4+ rolls if you don't care about pushing). I'm sure I'll remember more. If I don't PM you this week, give me a reminder.Digger Goreman wrote:Impressive, Slater... impressive....mattgslater wrote:Risks....
Seriously: may I have permission to put that post on my website in a new page, "Coaches Corner"?
Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Digger Goreman
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jamessooy
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With bashy teams it often worth just protecting the ball carrier, and not trying to move down field until you've flattened enough for a leisurely stroll. "Stalling" is going to favor the stronger team.
#2 I think people all too often go toe-to-toe turn after turn. Sometimes (even with bashy teams) the best move is to try to dodge everyone away 1 square. That way your opponent only gets to throw 1 block, the blitz. Doing this can slow an opponent's drive to a crawl and minimize the amount of players getting knocked down. In this case you only spend 1 turn running away/regrouping, followed by the rest of the drive throwing favorable blocks.
#2 I think people all too often go toe-to-toe turn after turn. Sometimes (even with bashy teams) the best move is to try to dodge everyone away 1 square. That way your opponent only gets to throw 1 block, the blitz. Doing this can slow an opponent's drive to a crawl and minimize the amount of players getting knocked down. In this case you only spend 1 turn running away/regrouping, followed by the rest of the drive throwing favorable blocks.
Reason: ''
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Digger Goreman
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Hmmmm, maybe... yet, knocking down others requires you being in contact to throw those blocks.... Also, leaving a bunch of goobs loose to run around and concentrate in one area, may not be the best tactic....
Depends, I suppose....
Depends, I suppose....
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LRB6/Icepelt Edition: Ah!, when Blood Bowl made sense....
"1 in 36, my Nuffled arse!"
"1 in 36, my Nuffled arse!"