Is this fair?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:08 am

Basic league schedule: We play fixed-schedule seasons, home and away games. Each team plays a home game and an away game against each opponent in his division (bashy vs bashy, speedy vs speedy), and an equal number of each otherwise. Seasons 18 games including postseason (2 on neutral ground) over 6 months (nominally weekly, but at least one week off per month).

Objectives: The major objective is home field advantage rules that are meaningful but not overwhelming. There are a few other motives. We want a little more cash floating around than the LRB5 league rules, because teams are really building for week 11-12 (when it really matters), rather than a perpetual league. We don't have any total greenhorns, but it's a generally inexperienced crowd: some guys aren't used to turn limits. We plan on assembling a team for next year's WC Quake, so we want to get used to playing on a timer without having to jump in.

Proposal: The home team gets +1 FAME to reflect the influx of local fans crowding the visitors out. Additionally, the crowd noise really favors the home team, so the home team is not subject to the four-minute turn limit.

What do you think? If there's a part you don't like, what part and why? Should I try an alternate means to meet my objectives, or is there a more fundamental problem?

Draig · Post by **Draig** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:13 am

I like the idea of some kind of home field advantage and I think a small FAME modifier is a pretty good way to do it. However I'm not so sold on the turn time limits being lifted. If you want to get used to playing to a limit, I'd just keep everyone to four minutes all the time. You will get used to it pretty quick that way. Also it keeps people from becoming frustrated if one player decides to take rather long turns. All in all, if you're in training for four minutes, I think the more practice you get of fitting all your actions and thinking into that timeframe the better.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:28 am

Especially at high TV, the turn limit is an important part of the game. Having only one side be subject to it is over the top, I think, especially every game.

As an inducement though, I could see it. No idea what to cost it... and I'd probably just stipulate 4MIN-->6 MIN. Maybe another inducement where the opponent has 4 MIN --> 6 MIN... Hmm, now I'm just babbling.

Aino · Post by **Aino** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:30 am

...or just be able once per half to get those 2 min extra for difficult choice on a crucial turn...

but one team not being subject to the 4 min is too much in my opinion

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:01 am

The +1 FAME is ok.

I detest the 4-min rule (and don't use it here, or at any tourney I've been to), but if you're trying to get people used to it to play at a future tourne, I think ignoring it for half your games isn't going to help.
I'd either change it to 5mins for the home team, or give them an extra 4 to 10 mins per half that they can use to add to turns.

Akka · Post by **Akka** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:36 am

In our group, some have said that playing without the time limit prevents them from playing at all. They can't spend three hours on a single match. 4 minutes and no Overtime makes sure you know how long the match will take.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:48 am

@ Akka: Why dont you give everyone 8x4=32 minutes for their half ? Or 2 x 32 = 64 minutes for their total torns ?
Surely some turns are faster than others, and in some turns you just need a tad more time. Also, you know now (2 x 64 = 128 minutes) how long a game will take...

Akka · Post by **Akka** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:17 am

Well, mostly because the rulebook has absolutely fine rules for it already. And having a total time pot of 32 minutes could mean that you don't even get your last 2 turns. And with 64 minutes for both halves, what if you spend it all in the first half? There is no way to enforce the rule. The LRB solution works great.

We are considering letting the player who's turn it isn't keep the time. The player must then warn the moving player when he has 2 minutes left and 30 seconds left. If he forgets to warn at either time the moving player gets 2 minutes or 30 seconds respectively from that point instead.

Draig · Post by **Draig** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:17 pm

If a limit is enforced I've always liked FUMBBLs system of 4 mins per turn +10 minutes of extra time per half. If you go over your four at any point, you start to eat into the ten.

I find I never use up my four minutes every turn, most are done in around three, but some require a bit of extra finkin and I so slip over the four occasionally.

bjorn9486 · Post by **bjorn9486** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:02 pm

What about instead of +1 FAME, the home team gets +1,000 Fans when determining FAME?

+1 FAME just seems like a lot to me personally.

Akka · Post by **Akka** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:12 pm

If its just Fan factor it could be +2, but it doesn't add income the same way. They wanted more cash, and with that in mind I would go for +1 FAME.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:19 pm

Cool. I like what I'm hearing. It sounds like we've got two camps: the "+1 FAME works, but don't mess with the time limit" camp and the "mess with the time if you want, but don't make it 4 min vs. unlimited" camp.

I really like Akka's warning idea. Draig points out the FUMBBL rules, which I really like but think are hard to enforce in a tabletop league (unless somebody knows a real cheap way to get half a dozen Chess timers -- is there an iPhone app?). One thing I've also been considering is setting the timetable to the schedule, so in Week 1, say, teams might have 6 minutes, but by Week 10 or whatever, it's down to 4.

@ Bjorn: It's about the Benjies. If I could figure out how to give a noticeable fan and monetary advantage cleanly without adding FAME I'd consider it, but the league impacts of +1 FAME to each team in half its games are really easy to account for (+5k per team per match). Its on-field impact doesn't seem too heavy either: 5/54 chance of an extra RR counter per drive (assuming no massive discrepancy in "natural" FAME and staffing), better odds on Pitch Invasion and Throw a Rock... am I missing anything?

So if I'm not doing 4 min vs. unlimited, and if I'm giving the home team a time edge, which is a better idea, Darkson's or Aino's?

A) Home team has 5 min, visitor has 4.
B) Home team can ignore one IP call per half.*
C) Forget it and just stick with +1 FAME.

* We don't get a lot of those, but I imagine we will if we start enforcing the 4-minute rule. One guy habitually forgets to move his marker, and people occasionally get frustrated with him and call IP on him at some point in the second half, but that's it.

bjorn9486 · Post by **bjorn9486** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:41 pm

I guess I have a question; with the home team gaining +1 FAME, can the other team get any FAME?

Akka · Post by **Akka** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:15 pm

Both teams can have FAME. Consider Fan Favourite for example.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:00 pm

mattgslater wrote:@ Bjorn: It's about the Benjies. If I could figure out how to give a noticeable fan and monetary advantage cleanly without adding FAME I'd consider it, but the league impacts of +1 FAME to each team in half its games are really easy to account for

What's more important? The extra money for the home team, or both the money and the fan's involvement? If it's just about giving extra money to the home team, why not just give them a +1 to the winnings roll (in addition tom any FAME). That way it has no effect on the on-field stuff.

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