Beginner with orcs in first league, need some help

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:55 pm

Take Block and turn him into a Runner. Chances are you may be facing Strip Ballers in the future, so having a Sure Hands player, especially with Block as well, is very useful.

Also means you can now have an offensive and defensive thrower. The Accurate thrower being offensive (picks up the ball, passes to another player who then cages), and the Block thrower being defensive (who tries to grab the ball back off the opposition and score).

And the Lineman is a good choice. Not only for the reserve bench, but get him Kick and you can use him whenever you think its needed instead of a Thrower.

~Andromidius

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:04 pm

13 players would be a minimum for a developed Orc team. Orcs depend on leading the player count, you have to have at least as many players as your opposition to win (except maybe versus Khemri and Dwarves.. you could win against them being a man down, due to the speed difference).

With throwers, a popular way to go is one offensive (Accurate, Kick-Off Return, Block) and one defensive (Block, Leader, Nerves of Steel, maybe Hail Mary Pass if you have a goblin or two with Diving Catch, or if you just like living dangerously).

Mr. Bonebreaker · Post by **Mr. Bonebreaker** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:25 pm

Well, the regular season ended and somehow I managed to win all my games, last game was against skaven, beat them 2-0 and caused six casualtys.

So far my roster looks like this:

Blitzer 1: Guard
Blitzer 2: +AG
Blitzer 3: Guard
Blitzer 4: Guard, Tackle
Bob 1-3: Block
Thrower 1: Block
Thrower 2: Accurate
Bob 4, Troll, Lineman and Goblin no skill-up's yet.

Now the best four coaches are in the play-off's. I will be facing a norse-team in the semifinals. The norse coach is an old veteran and definitely knows how to play, so I am a bit worried how to beat him. I read a lot about defensive setup with orcs and practiced with cyanides game (although not against norse, as there are none). Maybe you can give me some advice against norse, all the frenzy worries me. Or is there no need to worry anymore, as nearly all my guys have block and lots of guard by now and I can just pound him to the ground? I don't know his roster, but he lost some players in the league and I don't think he had the money to buy a snow-troll, but he definitley has 2 ulwereners and blitzers.

cyagen · Post by **cyagen** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:07 pm

A good general tip is : Go for a war of attrition, he got AV 7 you go AV 9, somethings got to give.

Be careful about your guys in the wide zone, Norses have a lot of Frenzy that they use for Crowd surfing.

And do not forget to sacrifice a goat to Nuffle for high rolls

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:22 pm

Are you saying you face Norse next? Use a Block BOB to knock down his Snow Troll, keeping your Troll on his Linos/Ulfs/Berserkers: the Snow Troll really dishes out hurt, but unless he gets a lucky double he'll be easy to take down. Try to mark Runners with Blitzers, and if you get a Runner down, foul with the Goblin. Block BOBs match up well against Ulfs and especially Berserkers.

Let him own the sideline squares, but try to keep him from building a loose cage in the wide zone. All the Guard you have should help you make follow-up blocks very painful, and Block BOBs are a good way to slow down the impact. Keep the Troll off the D-line until you've neutralized the Snow Troll.

Got time to improve? Get some Stand Firm, especially if you can get an improvement on two of Blitzers 1-3. If you get Stand Firm on #1 and 2, then your 4 Blitzers will let you take the Wide Zones, something he's probably used to taking for granted. Fend on the Block Thrower is a good alternative.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:50 am

tenwit wrote:13 players would be a minimum for a developed Orc team. Orcs depend on leading the player count, you have to have at least as many players as your opposition to win (except maybe versus Khemri and Dwarves.. you could win against them being a man down, due to the speed difference).

Only if you face a lot of chaos teams. Facing agility/other orc teams I'd take a wizard over 2 unused linemen any time. This of course assuming you always use the apothecary on the first casualty, and don't love your models/pixels too much! MB/Piling on/Tackle blitzers will make sure you are winning the war of attrition, as well as AV9. The wizard on the other hands lets you make serious mistakes on your defence and still pretty reliable score.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:12 pm

Troll, 4 Blockers, 4 Blitzers, 2 Throwers, 2 Goblins. 13 players, 110k-120k on the bench (Goblin #2, either Thrower #2 or BOB #3), not counting skills.

What's this "lineman" thing of which you speak? You need two Goblins 'cause they're fragile. You want 11 non-Goblin players 'cause that lets you develop an offense specialist: I like a QB-style Thrower with Accurate and KOR, benching a BOB on offense to get him on the field (the other Thrower is a halfback/safety). Except for the Gobs, you really need only one reserve, and that can be your QB who can double as a safety (against Tackle-heavy teams you might play him over a Goblin at reserve outside LB) if someone gets hurt.

But if you're in a really bash-heavy format, you should probably carry a lino as a true reserve. That's 14 players, a very auspicious number if you're of literary mind, and tough enough to hang with anyone. Even better, it's only 160-170k rookie bench value for three guys, including a rotational starter.

If you're not a Goblin person, you should carry two linos, yes. Only one is a Reserve: the other is a full-time starter, allowing you to build an O specialist Thrower. That's 13, and with an Apothecary it's plenty.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:49 pm

mattgslater wrote:Troll, 4 Blockers, 4 Blitzers, 2 Throwers, 2 Goblins. 13 players, 110k-120k on the bench (Goblin #2, either Thrower #2 or BOB #3), not counting skills.

If you ever bench a BOB (OVER A GOBLIN) then you are truely playing in a different blood bowl universe from the one I'm in

. But we seem to have plenty of other differences of opinion.

120k on the bench is 80% of the wizard, which lets you play really poorly and still win most of the time, due to a critical 2nd blitz when you need it.
Troll, 4 BOB, 4 Blitzer, 1 Thrower, 1 Lineman. All you need. If you get a +AG on a lino, you won't even need the thrower really.

My lineup vs your lineup = +80k for goblins, +20k for 2nd thrower => two bloodweiser babes or 2/3 of a wizard. Carrying that extra lino would make it a full wizard.

Mr. Bonebreaker · Post by **Mr. Bonebreaker** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:46 am

Although I surely don't know that much about orcs as you guys, that's what I think about TV and team composition so far, backed up by my beginners TT-league, cyagens game and fumbbl (LRB5) play:

13 players seem to be to much and just bloat the TV. Together with the apo I rarely lose more than one player. In a bash-heavy league I can see 13 players, but in a normal league with mixed teams, the additional player always reads as "50k inducements for free".

I am not happy with a gobbo, either, as soon as the team is somewhat developed. You just don't need him. His MA 6 is nice, but as you almost always build a cage and slowly grind down the field, you don't need it. The blitzers have MA 6, too, if you really need it and have far better surviveability. I just don't see which role the gobbo fills wich another player needed in the team can't, except maybe being a dirty player. Against normal teams I don't need a dedicated fouler that much, I only wish for one against other really bashy teams, to win the attrition war. So in a normal league I see the gobbo as bloat, again.

Having two throwers and building one offensive and the other one defensive is quite nice. But when you are fortunate enough to get + AG on a blitzer you can sack one thrower, for me this blitzer does nearly all the ball-handling and more than one thrower is not needed.

So, I agree with carnis on the setup with 1 Troll, 4 BOB, 4 Blitzer, 1 Thrower, 1 Lineman for a developed orc-team that is build to not bloat your TV.

Concerning my next game: Yes, it is against norse and I can't skill up anymore before the match. But all the advice went just as I already thought, so with a bit of luck, I should smash them north man!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:26 pm

If you're not a Goblin person, 12 men is enough. Some coaches like the added mobility of having a Goblin, others think they're too fragile and don't like the extra 30k on the bench. Me, I love playing Orcs, but I refuse to play a slow drive, so I find Goblins a big asset in helping to run up the score. They don't collect a lot of TDs themselves (some), but they are great for getting the ball once I've collapsed the pocket and handing off to a nearby Thrower, or for providing a high-mobility assist to key off against heavy teams.

@ Carnis: are you saying you peak out at 11 men? 'Cause the two Goblins are just 30k over a single reserve. I've never seen or heard of an 11 man team at peak development. 12....

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:03 pm

mattgslater wrote: @ Carnis: are you saying you peak out at 11 men? 'Cause the two Goblins are just 30k over a single reserve. I've never seen or heard of an 11 man team at peak development. 12....

Barring finals and semis, where you cant get stars, and on the condition that you are playing an all AV9 team in a not totally chaos-dominated league, you peak out at 11.

You'll of course buy a 12th player for finals, cause there you won't get anything useful for staying at 11 (like cheap stars, or mercs - which substitute for your 12th player during league). Then, after the finals you again sack the 12th player as useless. That's how it's gone over here anyway. Samplesize is not large though.