Nixing Loner: beef Always Hungry or nerf TTM?

[mattgslater]

OK, so we're probably taking the dramatic step of removing the Loner skill from on-roster players in balancing out my Options rules and keeping Big Guys attractive. This may start this season or next, but it's probably going to happen for at least one season. I know a lot of you are allergic to this idea: that's not what I want to talk about. One of my coaches insists on it, and after some play we realized that in most contexts Loner is a bit overrated, even without S access: it's annoying and kind of scary, but it doesn't come up much and doesn't change the way one plays in most contexts. The presence of Big Guys is somewhat limited by the competition of the Options rules, so they don't need to be overbalanced to the same degree as LRB5 anyway.

But one thing Loner does do is keep the Orc 1TTD in check, by limiting Throw Teammate. So I need a fix for Trolls above and beyond what exists. My first instinct would be to add oomph to Always Hungry, but I'm not sure how much: a whole TTR for a TTM would be a good thing, but Orky TTMs are uncommon except on Turn 8, when the TTRs are mostly gone. I can always buff Goblin teams to account for whatever I do: the Options system can easily be made Goblin-friendly.

So what should I do to Always Hungry in order to cancel (or more than cancel) the effect of Loner on Throw Teammate? I could alternately penalize Throw Teammate itself, which would let me give Humans an option to take a Halfling with their Ogre (or Orcs an Ogre option in lieu of the Troll and all but one Goblin?) but would mean I'd have to find a buff for all three Stunty/TTM teams rather than just the easy one. We'll follow Plasmoid's threads and find what we like, or come up with something in that case.

[mattgslater]

Ignore one "something else" vote. That's just me getting to view the results automatically so I don't have to wait for a refresh after hitting "view results" if TBB is going slow.

[plasmoid]

Rather than buff 4 teams, why not just nerf orcs?

[mattgslater]

Rather than buff 4 teams, why not just nerf orcs?

Other than buff Always Hungry and just buff one team? We have too many Orc lovers to do much else to Orcs. 0-2 Goblins makes more sense than 0-4, but that's not much of a nerf and won't have any on-the-ground effect whatsoever. Anything else would lead to an instant mutiny.

Orcs with Options: how about this?

0-16 Linos
0-2 Throwers
0-4 Blitzers
0-4 BOBs
0-1 Option

Options
Star Player and 0-2 Goblins
Troll and 0-2 Goblins
Goblin SW and 0-2 Goblins
Ogre

If I nerf TTM instead of beefing AH, I can just put 0-2 Goblins on the roster and take it off the options. With a weaker TTM, the Ogre isn't really a 30k step up from the Troll in practice, as the Orc team doesn't really care if its Big Guy plays d-lineman or inside backer: any big guy gives them a hideously evil front.

[SillySod]

Not enough players get eaten. I think the choice is clear.

[mattgslater]

OK, so the early mo seems to favor buffing Always Hungry. 1-3 seems excessive. 1-2?

[Digger Goreman]

One coach of 20 years and I (of 10+) agree: REMOVE goblins from the roster.... Orcs are damned well good enough w/o access to agility skills through goblins....

[mattgslater]

Yeah, but Goblins on the Orc roster are fun and not broken. If they were removed, it wouldn't change much. In all the hundreds of games I've played with Orcs, I've only played one game (recently at that) where I can conclusively say that the Goblin was clearly the difference-maker and wouldn't have been had he been a Thrower or Lineman instead.

[Digger Goreman]

True enough... and that's why I'd take 'em out... they are an unnecessary bump to a team that sure as nuffle doesn't need them....

It would address OT'ers, though... which the Orcs also don't need....

eh, whatever floats....