Alternative Humans

[bjorn9486]

Either that or we finally bow to pressure and give the Humans 0-2 Halflings...

Please no, we already have an under-strength position out there, we don't need more.

[Pakulkan]

Just as a question. People in general thinks that human are good enough? I mean, looking at their results in Leagues/tourneys?

Not a popular team between players
Not so good results in leagues
Not good results at all in tourneys

To me, all the people said me that is a lost of time play humans.

They don't really need a change? a chance?

[plasmoid]

Thadrins said:

Human blitzer gets +1 MA and Block, plus ST access (based on a lineman) for 40k.
An Orc Blitzer gets the same...for 30k.

That's because the pricing formula rates the step from MA6 to MA7 as a 20K step, whereas it rates AV8=>AV9 as a 10K step. AFAIK it does so consistently.

And halflings would hardly be a boost. Fluffy, yep. Boost - only marginally.

[mubo]

Agree with plasmoid, I'd like more S2 catchers, rather than making them all S3.
I'd say humans need more agility not more bash.

I think human catchers are the only S2 AG3 non-stuntys, so:
Is 0-2 AG4 catchers ridiculous? 80 or 90k.

Will mean they will be able to do the jobs they are 'supposed' to i.e. dodge and catch reliably. Adds a viable passing game, plus makes humans much better at ball retrieval etc.

Big boost, maybe too big, but stops humans from just being a very average running team. You could even trim their move to 7 or something.
Will make the human team too similar to skaven perhaps?

[plasmoid]

IF thats your thing, I'd rather add (new) Diving Catch to their profile rather than AG4.
Humans just aren't AG4. IMO.

[mubo]

Maybe, but I'd rather have a "two heads" equivalent.
I think mobility is their big problem.

See what you mean with AG4, but I think it is a decent and simple way to give a boost without messing around witht the roster too much.

[Thadrin]

IF thats your thing, I'd rather add (new) Diving Catch to their profile rather than AG4.
Humans just aren't AG4. IMO.

This.
They need a bump, this could be it.

FWIW I'd rate 8=>9AV the same as 6=>7 MA. If we're nudging, rather than going all out to buff, humans anyway.

[mattgslater]

Me, I think 6-7 MA is big like a +ST is big (a lot of coaches compare it to 7-8 AV but I think it's bigger). I think the extra 10k between the Human and Orc Blitzer is quite fair, though not quite necessary. Given the cheaper RRs, though....

I really like the idea of DC Catchers. As-is, plus DC, at 80k... solve a lot of problems. It would make Ogres more popular on 1M league teams, given how the math breaks down at 80k Catchers. Upgrading two Linos to a Thrower and a Catcher would be 50k rather than 40k, upgrading a Lino to an Ogre is 90k, and you end up with 40k floating after taking 4 Blitzers.

[voyagers_uk]

DC Human Catchers would work for me, that makes them REALLY annoying but gives them a little nudge.

[mattgslater]

Could make it Nerves instead. A little weaker on AG3, but lots of fun and a doubles skill.

[Elyoukey]

My opinionm is tht the +1st is very good for the catchers, i would keep the team like proposed by ianwilliams.
But maybe just droping the 'dodge' from the catcher so it will not get the blodge profile to quickly in a league. But the 'catch' skill keep his catcher status. He would then looks like the elf catcher, but human shaped.

my 2 cents

[Pakulkan]

I think if Human should be the average team, catchers shouldn't have AG4. Same reason to avoid ST2: is not average.

[Jural]

0-4 STR 3 catchers are a non-starter for me for two reasons-

1) They will overshadow blitzers
2) It strikes me as a huge boost, and I'm not sure that's needed.

In my view, all STR 3 proposals need to come with cost increases, a 0-2 limit, and possibly even a removal of general access or a movement decrease (Which I don't like at all.)

Unless of course the entire roster is overhauled.

The other side of things is to consider an across the board change to the humans to make them bashier... As Ian suggested. Then a STR 3 catcher is completely appropriate.

[Joemanji]

I agree on 80k blitzers, but don't you think the catchers would be a bit much. Would let you have:

Ogre, 4 Blitzers, 2 Catchers, Thrower, 4 Linos and 3RR, all in 1mil!

I don't have a problem with that. Because:

a) Dwarfs, Orcs, Amazons, WEs, Skaven etc can still field teams that should beat them.

b) The only difference (above 80K blitzers only) is that Human roster gets one extra catcher instead of a lineman. No big deal to start, but massive in terms of TV later on. An extra 10-30K per game off TV. As I said before, I think the problem with the Human roster is its huge inefficiency in TV terms. Their versatility means they end up paying for average stats on players who don't use or need them 90% of the time. Sure, sometimes its nice to have a MA6, AG3 lineman. But the vast majority of the time a Human coach would rather have a Zombie.

c) Human Catchers are simply not worth 70K. Either in terms of the cost formula, or in comparison to similar players (GR, HE catcher) or in terms of contribution to the team as a whole.

Thadrins said:

Human blitzer gets +1 MA and Block, plus ST access (based on a lineman) for 40k.
An Orc Blitzer gets the same...for 30k.

That's because the pricing formula rates the step from MA6 to MA7 as a 20K step, whereas it rates AV8=>AV9 as a 10K step. AFAIK it does so consistently.

It does, but is wrong to do so IMO. We all know AV9 was undercosted in that formula.

[mattgslater]

We all know AV9 was undercosted in that formula.

I don't know that. I don't believe that for a split second. MA7 over 6 is major, AV9 over 8 is nice. Generally, MA is more important than AV, though +1 AV from a base of 6 or 7 is significant. MA7 vs 6 is the most important MA gap except the extreme ones, where 1TTDs from behind scrimmage and die rolls to stand up enter the picture. Frankly, I'd rate AV8-9 as the third-least-cool improvement of them all (after AG 1-2 in all cases and AG 2-3 on a player with MA4 or less). Still good....