Alternative Humans - Playtesting

Glorian Underhill · Post by **Glorian Underhill** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:04 am

Hi,

I have convinced my local league to use the alternative Setup of Double Skulls. So this is the standard setup:

0-16 Linemen 6338 G-ASP 50k
0-2 Throwers 6338 Pass, Sure Hands GP-AS 70k
0-4 Catchers 7337 Catch, Dodge GA-SP 80k
0-4 Blitzer 7338 Block GS-AP 80k
0-1 Ogre 5529 unchanged S-GAP 140k

Rerolls 50k

---->
League settings.
Start with TR 100.
11 Games against fixed opponents, but not fixed sequence of play, then tournament against two other teams from the open league. (Lots of TR 200 Teams there)

The status of my Team can be seen here:

http://www.bb.wobcheck.de/obblm/index.p ... team_id=68

My starting Setup was as follows:

0-2 Linemen
0-2 Throwers
0-3 Catchers
0-4 Blitzer

4 ReRolls

Idea: The Basic idea is to start with max ReRolls and use the Fast Catchers and Blitzers to score. ReRolls galore to for the Catcherblocks.

Game 1: Orks. Lost 1-2

The new St3 Catcher is just Gold! Usally ST2 Catchers are the first Target from every other Player to break the BLock line, and then several 2dice Blocks follows. The ST3 Catcher prevents this. He is not the automatic first target. Against ST4 Blackorks the ST3 was also great. With one or two assistants the Catchers can Block back. For the first time I had the feeling that I can hold back the green tide with reasonable BLocks, and not unecessary Dodges.

I lost 1-2 though, to a Blodge Goblin, I had nothing to get the Ball from him. And I thought that going through with one Catcher, and one blitzer was enough. Two Dodging Orkblitzers later the Ball was between 4 Orks.

Game 2: Wood Elfes. Won 2-0

I had a little fear of this game. My Humans had no skills, and his Wardancers have both Strip Ball, Tackle. I got Mighty Zug as an Inducement and he was quite worth his money.

Again the ST3 Catchers where the key to succes. Even if the wardancer went in, 1 Dice was all he could get. And when pounding the woodies, it was possible to block with the catchers first, and then with the blitzers. Not as allways the other way round.

Unnecessary one of my throwers got Killed, and the combined cash of both games was 40.000.

Game 3: 4-0 Humans

Not much to say here. The Mirror match was fun, but my opponent was a league beginner. At least in the middel of the game he knows how to block all the times with two dice.

Game 4: 3-0 Chaos.

That game was the worst I ever had. He had 3 Skills. No Block but 3 times Mighty Blow on the Beastmen.
Turn one, first block, my Frenzy Blitzer throws 4 Skulls, then 11, 12, 6, Apo 6. Dead no. 2 on the Team.

Turn two, Catcher is Blocked, 12, 11, 6. Dead

Second half Lineman, well indeced, but also: 12, 11, 6

So actually it where his pink dice that scored that high. I Killed him also one beastmen and injured another. After the match I was close to dump the Team. Got enough Money to buy the Blitzer Back.

Game 5: 2-0 Amazons.

I have aleady a Blodge Blitzer, a Blodge Catcher and a Block Thrower. Plus three induced Lineman. He had 14 women ready and 2 Blitzers with Mighty Blow.

The game started with a knockout for me but he made it even. Through a turnover in the following turn I was able to knock his complete Team down. Made all in all I think 4 Cas and several KOs. With only two surviving Catchers their impact wasnt that hard. But the Blodge Catcher was capable of Knocking down Chaos warriors with one assist.
Won the Game then, because he made 3 times a double skull with exact the same Blitzer. The 3 Blocks where seperated over the match, but blocked most of his movement.

Thoughts so far.

The ST3 Catcher is great. I didn't have anymore the idea that I'm running away from Bashteams, but are able to bring the fingt to them.

What I have also wittnessed is the gange of Roles in the Team. With my 4 ReRolls I can decide to pick the Ball not with an Thrower up, but with an Catcher. If the siutation is dire, or the ReRoll used the Thrower comes in back. Bit the Catcher is the prefered Ball Carrier. The BLitzers start at the Line of Scrimmage, and the protect the Catcher when there is the time.

After my Ball handler got knocked down I use the Catcher usually now to pick it up again, and try to run to his endzone. The Blitzers are the preferred protector of this guy. And the Oppenent don't have any cheap 2 Dice Blocks against the Catcher.

So all in all I'm more then impressed by the change of the Catcher and the Team. Still everything works only on a 3+ but they have now teeth. And with that change they are surely a Tier 2 or 1.5 Candidate.

And the Catchers are not already the better Blitzers. Sure their Blodge as an first comboskill is absolutley nice. As it is on 4 Ghoules in the Undead Team as well. Or the 4 Catchers at the Pro Elves. But in combination with the fast human-guardblitzers, these guys rock.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:17 am

Sounds fun.
Also sounds like the chatchers have become runners.
Which I suppose some will love.

I'd like the catcher to be a catcher. Bonus Diving Catch or bonus NOS appeals to me more.

Cheers
Martin

PS - oh, I also think that the 4 blodge ghouls is what makes the undead team so very problematic early on.

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:33 am

So after so many games, how many linemen make up part of your team?

Also, without injuries, do you see linemen forming a part of the team after you attain an Ogre?

Glorian Underhill · Post by **Glorian Underhill** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:21 am

Well after one dead Thrower there will be 4 Lineman as I need to buy my induced Lineman.

When the Oger someday will be part of my lineup, There will be maybe 2 On the Line of scrimmage, or one Lineman and one thrower.

I use throwers as fast SSP getter and then give them Block. So they are better Lineman for me. Actually I'm not a fan of the passing game. And yes, a ST3 Catcher supports the Running Game, my favoured style of play very much.

To have 4 blitzers in the Lineup is not a question. But I'm not sure that I will allways run with 4 Catchers if I have them. Sure, Move 7 and Dodge is good, but AV7 is AV7. When they will all have Block, then I will field them maybe.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:27 am

plasmoid wrote:PS - oh, I also think that the 4 blodge ghouls is what makes the undead team so very problematic early on.

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:54 am

Glorian Underhill wrote:When the Oger someday will be part of my lineup, There will be maybe 2 On the Line of scrimmage, or one Lineman and one thrower.

That is my main concern with this list. The lineman becoming an almost non-existant position on the human roster. You would only take the 1 to make up a 12th player in case of a knock out.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:06 am

The NAF will probably get around to imposing a 4 rostered linemen minimum limit on all teams to take part in their structured Tournaments.. they will have to have been raised within a 10 mile radius of the home stadium and have an ethnic background representing the fan base.

purdindas · Post by **purdindas** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:05 pm

It's good that your league agreed to try out this experimental roster. It definetely sounds like a much better human roster. Just how good though? I would need to try it out to make syre but I don't think these changes make the team 'out of balance' or 'broken'. Everything is still done on a 3 afterall.

One thing that doesn't sit right with me however is using the catchers as runners. 2 skill ups and you have Block and sure hands. Throwers then become glorified linemen like with the norse team. Catchers should be catchers IMO.

Glorian Underhill · Post by **Glorian Underhill** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:13 pm

Yes, the First skill for the Catcher is Block. Thats the only answer.

But that it was before. And I don't think I will put sure hands on the Catcher. The Thrower has sure Hands, the Catcher will get Side Step, sure Feet or anything other fancy that makes him cooler.

Maybe then they will get Frenzy, Tackle or Strip Ball. But first they will get Skills that will bring them to Score, not to Block. That is the Job of the Blitzers. (Guard, Tackle, MB)

And when in the near Future Diving Catch will get plus 1 on an acurate Catch then a 2+ pass (with acurate) and 2+ Catch (with diving Catch) is an option. Now it is not an real option for me.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:20 pm

So eventually, a team will field two blitzers and an ogre on the LoS on offense, and use it's 4 catchers and 2 additional blitzers to penetrate into the opponent's half of the field. The two throwers would be the obvious deep men/ball collectors on offense, with some possible suppo...

But on defense, I think you'd love to have 2 blitzers/catchers deep, meaning that you would want your LoS to have two linemen. There is really no need to stack your line with blitzers on defense (Although blodging catchers with Side Step could be annoying!)

So maybe humans end up with 3 linemen in the end? It's not as bad as the orcs, who really do fine without linemen. The main issue is that orcs always have 5 great options to put on the line, so there isn't a huge need for the lineman. He basically becomes a 13th man, or a vessel for Dirty Player, Side Step, or Kick.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:37 pm

Glorian Underhill said:

Actually I'm not a fan of the passing game. And yes, a ST3 Catcher supports the Running Game, my favoured style of play very much.

Well, for me, that is the problem.
As a commish I'd say: If you don't like a teams playing style, don't change them - just pick one of the others.
The human team is a team with throwers and catchers, not runners.

Ah well, I've stated my position. I'll grump off

Oh, SillySod, was that a quotation as in "I agree" or as in "geee, look what the retard wrote"

Cheers
Martin

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:25 pm

plasmoid wrote:"I agree"

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:39 pm

plasmoid wrote:Glorian Underhill said:
Actually I'm not a fan of the passing game. And yes, a ST3 Catcher supports the Running Game, my favoured style of play very much.
Well, for me, that is the problem.
As a commish I'd say: If you don't like a teams playing style, don't change them - just pick one of the others.
The human team is a team with throwers and catchers, not runners.

I agree. Catchers have a great statline already of 8237. They are just overpriced. If they are going to be 7337 they should be 0-2. But 7337 is dull.

bjorn9486 · Post by **bjorn9486** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:13 pm

Wow, it looks like ST 3 Catchers make humans too good; and I play humans!

I was wondering if you had the TV of your team and your opponents team for each game. I would just like to know the difference for reference.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:50 pm

I think we should probably leave this thread as feedback for Glorian's playtest data, not endless debate. I am guilty as well, apologies.