Need advice on running dwarf cage

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:44 am

Having a tournament this weekend, and I'm going to play my old team again, only...

I never managed to work out how to run a Dwarf cage...

I know what a basic cage should look like, but I just don't manage to get it rolling, either my opponent blocks me off with a line of players in front of me that can't be opened with one blitz, or they just build me in.

Some additional questions:

1) Should I run the cage through the centre of the field (safer) or along the sides (blitzing anybody in front of me and to close to the line off the field with my trollslayers)

2) should I run 1 or 2 Dwarfs the other way as "scoring threats"

3) is there any other way of scoring with Dwarfs that I could try.

Thanx

R

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:06 pm

I prefer sidelines more. You eliminate one side of your cage, and can thus have a very strong front, rear and one side to the cage. Also leaves room for that odd player who's running somewhere, pretending to be a your ace-in-the-sleeve-catcher-wannabe.
But naturally, keep your options open and be ready to break into the middle of the field when necessary. It's just that a middle-field cage can be attacked from every direction...

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:37 pm

Move the cage where ever there is weak cover. Look for a weakness than exploit it. Try to move other players to stop him covering up and resupporting the weak area. Rolling the cage side to side as well as forward each turn can help. If you are still having trouble yu havn't beaten them up enough ;]

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:50 pm

So, Grumbledook, you suggest to use about 4 or 5 dwarfs to build the cage (plus ball carrier) and then to use the rest to keep other players busy?
Tried something similar with halflings once; using most of them as a TZ screen, workes really well...

I know the basics of the cage, but I always end up moving my runner from the cage towards the end zone with only about two players for protection, getting blitzed and then picking up the ball again and scoring (best scenario) simply because my cage gets completely stuck in the opposition (who always seem to have a lot more players then I somehow)... I get frustated, move out and bang, I go down.

R

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:50 pm

Ive never actually played dwarfs, but played against them a lot and have cage experence with my undead and chaos dwarfs. Cause your dwarfs are slower its going to be harder to move it. Any players you have spare move them into a position that will hopefully help you break through the next turn and move the cage forward. If you can do this in two places in their defence then you have more of a chance of getting through somewhere.

Having the numbers advantage certainly helps, so try to get as many of their team off the pitch as possable. Though this is never something you can rely on. Also sometimes running away from the cage will sometimes be the only option you have if their defence is holding out. Be careful though, if they get the ball loose then faster teams might be able to get the ball away and score on you. So sometimes its better to cut your loses and keep hold of the ball to stop them scoring and hope you can turn them over instead.

Lastly all I can say is practice! The more you play with them, you should notice what things work and what doesn't.

KnuckleGutKiller · Post by **KnuckleGutKiller** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:36 pm

I play Dwarfs and a side line cage works best with two runners out in the middle together with one having nerves of steel once you get over the pitch you are in scoring posistion!

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:19 am

Well, I won the tournament; I've beaten the Amazons (1-0) and Norse (2-1), and I played a draw against the orcs (1-1)

I just couldn't get my cage through those greenskinned bastards...
had to score from a very lucky (6+) pass...

And now

Practice, practice, practice...

Have to make some green punchbacks to practice on some more...

R

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:18 am

Instead of trying to form a cage, look directly at what you're trying to achieve and it will all fall into place.

You want the following things:

1: No-one should be able to blitz the ball carrier without making obscene dodge rolls. The "five of diamonds" cage is the best way to do this.
2: No-one should be able to directly block anyone who is preventing anyone blitzing the ball carrier. Don't leave people in base to base contact if you can help it
3: Make sure you have a way of moving forward. Troll slayers running with the cage down the sideline are good for this, you threaten the blitz off the sideline.
4: Restrict the opponent's ability to box in your players. Spread a screen, restrict the opponent's movement.

Some of the best dwarf coaches I know never use an classic cage, they just apply these principles and it all falls into place. If you keep those points in mind it should get you thinking dwarf-style.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:32 am

sounds good, thanks

That's more like the kind of advice I needed

The orc coach managed to stall my cage (moving sideways and around the opposition is never really an option with mv 4) and than blitzed his ogre into my cage (from a corner into btb contact with my ball carrier) and supported him with some black orcs. That got me stuck. A better screen and going down the side might have helped against that.

Should I choose a side before setting up, or should I spread evenly and later choose a side to go down...

Both have good and bad points (1st is few turns faster, if OK, second might lead to the opponent placing the ball to far off)

R

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:51 am

That is a good summation there, Marcus!

Follow points #1 & #2 and you shouldn't have problems with players blitzing the ball carrier (watch out for the wardancers, though). Add in #3 and you should be able to score eventually. #4 is not as imperative - the important part of #4 is included in #3 - as long as you can move forward, being boxed in doesn't matter that much.

I've seen coaches whose main aim is to create some specific sort of a box. But they seem to have little idea of what to do with the cage after that. Cage is but a means to have your ball-carrier traverse onwards on the pitch in relatively good safety.

Da Nite Rida · Post by **Da Nite Rida** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:36 pm

Marcus wrote:1: No-one should be able to blitz the ball carrier without making obscene dodge rolls. The "five of diamonds" cage is the best way to do this.

What is the "five of diamonds"?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:14 pm

I presume he means the situation where the ball-handler is surrounded by four players like in the diagram below (X=player, -=empty square, B=ballhandler):

X-X
-B-
X-X

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:02 am

I usually have more ppl in the Cage at the start of a team than later. Later when the Dwarfs have Guard and even some Guard/SF the one above is fantastic. Can depend very on the team you are facing too. Can't say I like those Leapfrogs called Wardancers when you have that setup at the start of team

When you have 4 Guards you won't need to have more than those 4 doing the cage. The others can go around and wreck havoc on the rest of the opposing team. But in the start (also depending on team you are facing) i would consider to have a few more in "Da-Cage"

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:43 am

One more in the front with guard is a prerequesite, i would say

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:15 am

The Big missunderstanding about playing a Dwarf team properly is that a CAGE doesnt just mean a diamond/castle/X that just moves foward until it scores.

A CAGE just means that your opponent has to dodge alot to, at best, manage a 2 die block your choice.

Half ya Longbeards will never get off the LOS, and they dont need to provided they keep your opponents players there as well.
You need to stretch your opponents players and force alot of Dodge rolls for him to even set up a defensive line that would slow you down. The Actual CAGE where the Ball Carrier sits may only be him and 2 or 3 other dudes with GUARD.

Your looking to Block players and get inbetween them and your Ball Carrier even if you just roll a PUSH.

If all your playing against another Slowish team, kinky line might be sufficient to keep him away from the ball carrier while maximising the amout of Blocks you get to throw next turn to see where the bigger hole opens up and then push extra players through that.

Its not about 1 big mass of Dwarfs, but Islands of Dwarfs that are holding up equal numbers (or greater) numbers of opposing players.

You dont have much MA or AG so you should be spread out for flexibility. If your opponent gets a really good turn of Dodges and manages to close off then lane infront of you, the Ma 6 Runner can just switch flanks to where you should have another group of LB's while the rest of the team that was Guarding the Runner is now making it hard for your opponent to switch flanks back to get in your way again.

A CAGE should be fluid in motion. Not just 11 Ma 4 players trying to move down the field together.

---Korhil