Some thoughts on Ogres

Heff · Post by **Heff** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:01 pm

never played them or against them but somehow I just fancy the team. probably ignorance but somehow I keep wanting to shell out th fifty quid it would cost for a hard work team. Anybody else like that. I know they are bad but I love them. Feel the same about Kemri. Played once got CRUSHED still loved them

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:09 pm

just aquired an Ogre team so watching this thread with interest.....(however dont think i will be a proficient as Pippy with them, Ive played him....Once)

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:14 pm

Pippy wrote:My plan is to sack any snots that get skills or get injured, and focus on skilling my ogres. With any luck I'll get some block, maybe even a MA6/break tackle, dodge/break tackle or SH/break tackle ogre as a ball carrier. Hopefully I'll make the play offs and with 10 snots and 6 skilled ogres I reckon I have a chance.

This seems a bit negative to me, but you're right about the DT snots. The first one is only worth about 5k, but it's definitely cumulative after that, with the 20k being passed fairly quickly.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:46 pm

For the record, an unsuccesful Ogre coach (who shall remain nameless) wrote here on TBB that he didn't bother to buy snots as they died anyway. So he just focused on the ogres and used the journeymen.

I profoundly disagree. You need a 15-16 man team to make these guys click.
Cheers
Martin

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:32 pm

sann0638 wrote:
Pippy wrote:My plan is to sack any snots that get skills ...
This seems a bit negative to me

I know what you mean. It feels slightly harsh on the poor snots, and maybe even a little against the spirit of the game. I dunno.

But then again is TV management a negative tactic?

If I make the play-offs I'm going to need the full 10 snots and 6 ogres. I have 4RR and will have an apothecary plus some FF. That makes a TV of something like 145. I hope my ogres will have 10-12 skills between them so without snot skills you're looking at high 160s-170 TV.

If you throw in half a dozen or more snotling skills, this is pushing the TV up well into the 180s and higher. I don't think they're worth it, not do I expect skilled ones to last long without getting injured. This means I'll be giving away a lot of inducements. Ogres seem to be quite a TV heavy team compared to some others, so it would be wise to keep it a bit lower if I can.

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:47 pm

My ogre team has played 20 games (with about a winratio of 50%) and I haven't fired a single snotling without stat-decreases, and I really want my snotlings to be a substantial part of the team. Without snotlings to help the ogres out your ogres will suffer. I understand the TV management side of things but I really like to see snotlings with quite a few SPP's. My team has a snotling which has reached 53 spp. He has been lucky enough to roll a MA+1, AG+1 a double (Sure Hands) and a normal skill (Catch). I know he (6145 Dodge, Titchy, Stunty, Right stuff, Sure Hands, Catch) really isn't worth 140k, compared to a Wardancer at 120k, but this snotling and a few DT-snotlings have been a massive help to the teams success.

My star snotling really blossomed, when I finally got an Ogre with AG3, strong arm and finally rolled a double and got Sure hands. My ogre team has finally developed a good passing game as an alternative to the running game.

So please, give these small little buggers a chance!

Gronlokk · Post by **Gronlokk** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:45 am

Just a little thought: Having 10 snotlings and 6 ogres on your team means you are not allowed to induce any star players as long as you don't have injured players missing the game... That's why I tend to field a team of 14 players (6 ogres, 8 snots).

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:59 am

surely other teams will have a TV higher than 180 anyway

my high elf team have shot up in TV really quickly

Kapten Vendetta · Post by **Kapten Vendetta** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:57 am

I like this thread a lot, seeing as I'll most likely start my own Ogre team once the third season of BB-mayhem rolls around, somewhere in the not to distant future.

I have a few questions however.

This thread seems to - mainly - have dealt with protecting the ball and skill development. My questions are more along the lines of moving the ball. Many here seems to advocate a starting team of 5 Ogres & 7-8 Snots', with the remainder being spent on re-rolls (usually 2) and some FF.

With so few re-rolls, playing a team with profound difficulties moving (themselves; via Bone 'ead, as well as the ball) can you - generally - afford to fail to pick up the ball?

Ogres might be big and strong, but they're only 5 of 'em in such a starting roster; and Snots' can't screen/block lanes to save their lives (literally) should you fail to pick up the ball (and thus end up having to protect that ball-on-the-lose).

So what are the Ogres defence? (A moderate offence? Again: only 5 Ogres, a clever opponent won't let them tie his own team up with multiple TZ's spread over two-three players.) Is the idea to have an Ogre be the ball-carrier under most circumstances and have the Snots' be in the way, and pray to Nuffle you don't go Bone 'ead?

This seems like a re-roll drain if I ever saw one, with a 4+ roll to pick it up, provided you've passed your 2+ roll to even attempt to pick it up in the first place! Here the (only) 2 re-rolls comes in; what are you seasoned veterans experience with Ogres and ball-management?

A lot of turnovers? A lot of greased up fingers fumbling the ball? What of Snots' as ball carriers? A bad idea due to ridiculous ST and the teams difficulties protecting the bearer?

What of set-ups on offence? An Ogre deep in your endzone, to be the carrier, or moving the ball to him via a Snotling hand-off? Flying Snots only with +AG rolls (for the ever important landing on your feet)? Do you ground and pound your way to the opposing endzone alá Dwarfs, slow and steady, or do you Nuffle it with breakthroughs and chance rolls?

And on defence? How do you keep your Ogres from getting tied up near the LOS? Snots can't be ball-harriers as you need a three to one ratio for most blocks. What of defence, how do you do it? Some Ogres deep, sacrificing the LOS with only two big 'uns there? And the other three deeper down the field?

And lastly; do you see a light at the end of the tunnel as the team progresses or do you struggle all the way to the end with frustratingly poor ball-handling abilities and a mound of dead and maimed Snotlings in your wake?

Thank you in advance.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:15 am

Kapten Vendetta wrote: And lastly; do you see a light at the end of the tunnel as the team progresses or do you struggle all the way to the end with frustratingly poor ball-handling abilities and a mound of dead and maimed Snotlings in your wake?

Not me personally, dont see much of any light at the end

. MA5 and bonehead means I've drawn or lost a bunch of games on failing a bone head with a reroll when there's nothing between me and the endzone.

With an +AG snotling or brickfarth & grotty you can set up pretty reliable ballplays. Especially grotty as he's AG4/MA6 and no boner / S1 makes for a great player. You can then use him to move the ball to the offensive end and hand it off. Still.. It's pretty frustrating combo, either MA5 & boner or ST1 & MA5..

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:22 pm

Kapten Vendetta wrote: This thread seems to - mainly - have dealt with protecting the ball and skill development. My questions are more along the lines of moving the ball. Many here seems to advocate a starting team of 5 Ogres & 7-8 Snots', with the remainder being spent on re-rolls (usually 2) and some FF.

I would say (and I think most experienced ogre-players would agree): Start with 4 ogres and as many rerolls as possible (1 less ogre=2 more rerolls). Skip Fanfactor and be prepared to have snotling journeymen until you've bought an apotechary and the 5th and 6th ogre.

Kapten Vendetta wrote: What of set-ups on offence? An Ogre deep in your endzone, to be the carrier, or moving the ball to him via a Snotling hand-off? Flying Snots only with +AG rolls (for the ever important landing on your feet)? Do you ground and pound your way to the opposing endzone alá Dwarfs, slow and steady, or do you Nuffle it with breakthroughs and chance rolls?

In the beginning you need to rely on the snotlings to pick up the ball in the back and let the ogres hold the offensive line and then decide if a a hand-off or a throw team-mate action is the way to go. That usually depends on what team you're playing against and how badly hurt your team has become.

Kapten Vendetta wrote: And lastly; do you see a light at the end of the tunnel as the team progresses or do you struggle all the way to the end with frustratingly poor ball-handling abilities and a mound of dead and maimed Snotlings in your wake?

Be prepared for a long hard struggle, you will suffer a lot of casualties and some really bad results but when you win the feeling is great, usually after a few risky plays, and with a few fortunate skillup-rolls your team will hopefully be a little bit competitive...

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:51 pm

Kapten Vendetta wrote: My questions are more along the lines of moving the ball. Many here seems to advocate a starting team of 5 Ogres & 7-8 Snots', with the remainder being spent on re-rolls (usually 2) and some FF.

I started with 4 Ogres, 7 snotlings and 4RR and with some cash in the bank saving up for my 5th ogre (we start at 1,050,000 as a house rule).

In our league there are no superfast/superagile teams so failing to pick up the ball with an ogre has not necessarily been a game-loser if I've been careful. In any case, I think you have to take the plunge and run with the ogres or else snotlings are sitting ducks waiting to be sacked.

I've found a break tackle ogre is a handy ball carrier if you're bold and pick up with him.

Ogres are a slow moving team, in some ways similar to Khemri, so you have to play a steady grind advancing a few squares each turn towards the endzone. The TTM or snotling hand-off are options but both are risky/limited.

boxjuggler · Post by **boxjuggler** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:17 pm

plasmoid wrote:For the record, an unsuccesful Ogre coach (who shall remain nameless) wrote here on TBB that he didn't bother to buy snots as they died anyway. So he just focused on the ogres and used the journeymen.

I profoundly disagree. You need a 15-16 man team to make these guys click.
Cheers
Martin

My experience of playing Ogres suggests you're very unlikely to have a full team. I only have Ogres. I loose 2-3 snotlings per game, so I only ever have journey snots. If you buy snottlings they just die. Until I've played maybe another 10 games or so I can't reallly envisage having enough cash to ever get over 6 full time snottlings.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:52 pm

How do you manage to lose that many snots consistently?
MNG's recover. I don't fire ones with minor injuries.
Also, I've been playing LRB6, where stunties get badly hurt on the 9.
And I think twice before leaving them standing next to opponents.

It all helps

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:32 pm

Pippy wrote:snotlings are sitting ducks waiting to be sacked.

Not if they are protected with (BT, guarding) ogres and DT snotlings, they're not. Unless you're playing against stinky elves.