Human Team Midway through Season 2

wedge22 · Post by **wedge22** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:28 pm

So my Human team is halfway through their 2nd Season and progressing along nicely, you can click on the link in my sig for an online roster. I am looking for some advice on which skills to take next on my players and would appreciate input from fellow TBB members.

#1 TH Leader or Safe Throw
#3 CA NOS or Diving Catch
#4 CA ?
#5 CA Diving Catch
#6 CA Block
#7 BL Stand Firm
#8 BL ?
#9 BL Frenzy
#10 BL Stand Firm
#12 LM Guard
#13 LM ?
#14 LM Blcok
#15 LM Guard
#16 OGRE Guard

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:53 pm

It looks like a very solid team! Humans are not my primary team so I'll restrain from commenting each player, but some general observations:

* As you mentioned, Diving Catch on a pair of catchers will give you an impressive passing game (and complement Hail Mary nicely, although I would probably have gone for Safe Throw instead of HM).
* You are low on Tackle, especially considering one of them is a MV 5 lineman that might have trouble positioning himself to take advantage of Tackle.
* +ST and MultiBlock on the Ogre is very nice, but without Block he is still a bit unreliable. Guard or Stand Firm are good choises in order to play the Ogre a bit more defensively, in case you do not roll a double.
* I'd be tempted to replace the -AG Blitzer right away, especially since he has not managed a stat increase or double roll in his first two rolls.
* Do you need all those coaches and cheerleaders? Only one of your most recent opponents seem to have any, but this depends on the rest of your league. Rule of thumb is that you need one more coach / cheerleader than your opponents, and the rest is dead weight. Keep in mind that fans / coaches are only rolled roughly 28% of all kicks, so team value wise you are probably better off just getting another TRR if you feel that you need one (although with Sure hands, pass, lots of Block and Catch you should be OK with 4 TRR).

wedge22 · Post by **wedge22** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:13 pm

Thanks for the reply.

DC and HM should be a great combo if and when we move to LRB 6.

I can go with Tackle on my LM that have no current skills as their 1st skill?

I would love to roll Doubles on my Ogre again, a +1 ST was too good to pass on though.

I have been toying with the idea of losing the Blitzer as I do have enough cash to replace him and he losing him would lower my TV alittle.

I only added the Coaches and Cheerleaders after my last game as they really helped my opponent gain many extra rerolls, plus they cost alot less than an actual reroll.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:36 pm

block on the thrower (i give mine block first skill i'm amazed you haven't got it yet)

block then sidestep on catchers, which I will follow up with a couple getting diving tackle (you have none yet)

other catchers get wrestle rather than block, guard on doubles (both types), seems you have built the team to be rather elven in character though

need to blitz in tandem (to get an assist to make up for ST2, you have no one else on the team getting wrestle and it is really good for taking down ball carriers

dump the ag2 blitzer, horrible player, you need more guard on the team as well

frenzy will get you into trouble with your lack of guard, though I suppose he does have ST4, maybe mighty blow could be better first and frenzy on the tackle guy for hitting gutter runners, elves and skaven?

guard would have been far more useful on the ogre than multiple block, after that stand firm

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:51 am

I have a different development strategy for Humies, which has proved very successful so far. The underlying premise is that Humies do not cut the mustard as a bash team, but rather (at least in LRB5+) are better as a sort of poor man's agility team with ST skills in support. Accordingly I do not have an Ogre. With 14 men (3 Catchers) the TV is pleasingly low (with 3 Re-rolls, TV before FF and skills is just 116. This is very effective in the new value-conscious world of BB.

For the Blitzers, I have given them all Guard as first skill, to be followed by Fend, then Tackle (then Grab, Juggernaut). Dodge, Sidestep on doubles (if you give them Stand Firm, they will suffer damage, being only AV8).

For the Linos, Wrestle, Fend, Tackle is ideal, I think (with Dodge, Sidestep on doubles). If you give all the Blitzers Guard, I suggest you don't need it on Linos as well. Wrestle is an excellent substitute for Tackle, while you wait for the Blitzers to get it.

For the Catchers, who skill up relatively quickly, I believe that Diving Catch is the ideal first skill, to be followed by Block, Sidestep, Fend. Nerves of Steel as first doubles choice (perfect with Diving Catch).

For the Throwers, I suggest one pure offensive Thrower (Accurate, Kick-off Return, Safe Throw, Nerves of Steel - Strong Arm on doubles, naturally). For the other "defensive" Thrower, Leader, Block, Fend, Accurate (Dodge, Sidestep on doubles).

Hope this helps your thinking. And in case you were thinking, this team plays in a bash-heavy league.

Funksultan · Post by **Funksultan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:21 pm

I know it's probably old-school, but for me, I'd always take block as a first skill on catchers. Always.

They have dodge and catch, so they really aren't desperate for offensive skills, but in any long term (or even short term) league, seeing a str 2 model with armor 7 and no block just screams for abuse. I'd invest a blitz action just to insure that guy walks with a limp the rest of his life.

Block increases his survivability by a LOT. They will score, and score a lot with your passing game, but unless you invest in keeping them alive, I wouldn't put too much thought into those later skill picks. -1 mv, -1 ag, -1 st all scream for retirement on those guys.

wedge22 · Post by **wedge22** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:10 pm

I agree that Block is important on Catchers but as I have 4 of them right now I might try and focus on getting Wrestle instead of Block on some of them now though, as well as Diving Tackle.
Frenzy on my ST4 BL is very tempting, but he does not skill up for a while now anyway.
Lineman I am going to go with Smeborgs suggestion for their future builds.

Biff · Post by **Biff** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:46 pm

Heres my team. Ive played som 20+ games with it and it worked fine so far.

http://www.bloodbowlonline.com/Team.sht ... 8c1342bc56

And heres my skill list (even though i Copy/pasted it from talkblodbowl):

Linemen: Block, Dirty Player, Kick. 2nd/Later: Tackle, Fend. Doubles: Guard, Dodge, Side Step, Sneaky Git. 10: +MA.
Catchers: Block, Side Step. 2nd/Later: Jump Up, Fend. Doubles: Guard, Nerves of Steel. 10: +AV.
Throwers: Accurate, Block. 2nd/Later: Leader, Nerves of Steel. Doubles: Dodge, Strong Arm. 10: +MA.
Blitzers: Guard, Tackle. 2nd/Later: Stand Firm, Mighty Blow. Doubles: Dodge. 10: +AV or skill.
Ogres: Guard, Stand Firm. 3rd/later: Break Tackle, Juggernaut. Doubles: Block. 10: +AV or skill.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Biff - I struggle to believe that your side has no Wrestle. How many years has Wrestle been in the game now? Have you perhaps not tried it?

Wedge22 - Frenzy is a tempting option on the Human team, but I guess it would need to be combined with Stand Firm.

Biff · Post by **Biff** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:56 am

Smeborg wrote:Biff - I struggle to believe that your side has no Wrestle. How many years has Wrestle been in the game now? Have you perhaps not tried it?

Correct. I will get me a wrestler though. Too bad I didnt give it to nr 10, Lucas Dorfmann. Some Fend and Wrestle on the LoS should be nice, and quite frustrating for the oponent.

Thats the only option right? Or maybe a dedicated safety-catcher with wrestle/tacke?

Edit: I really need some Dauntless as well since I face a lot of ST4+ in our league. And Frenzy.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:08 pm

A player in our league has built up a "strange" human team, which works remarkably well against AV7-AV8 teams, while it certainly struggles against AV9 / STR players.

He's hired as I recall just 2 blitzers, all 4 catchers, 2 throwers, ogre and linemen up to 14 players. In addition to that he fields an apothecary, a singular reroll and no other coaching staff. He usually fields all the catchers, due to their high MA (remarkable for assisting blocks, fouls and for scoring).

First 4 skills he took (on 2 of his catchers, 1 thrower and 1 lineman) were dirty player x4. Later on added guard blitzers, kick skill on a dirty player catcher (has no faith in Sneaky Git as I recall). Think he's racking up wrestle now on liners.

The idea is, the throwers pickup the ball with surehands (no need for reroll), the team also brings along pass reroll and catch reroll. He only blitzes once per turn with a blitzer (no need for reroll again), only rarely blocks and only with block/wrestle players & 2dice. Fouls till he runs out of bribes, or the opponent is diminished enough that he can start scoring.

He usually always receives first if he wins the toss, and blitzes one of the LOS players for a 5-assist foul on the first turn. When he can get a 2-3 player advantage, he ties up every player in the field every turn with his liners/blitzers and starts scoring with the throwers & catchers. Whenever he kicks, he kicks 1-2 squares behind the LOS, for a touchback or a quick score if the pickup should fail.

It's frequent that he can win games up to 3-0 or 4-0, if he can get a numbers advantage in the first round. Due to the MA8 of the catchers and the natural reroll on all the relevant rolls (pickup, pass, catch). He usually gets bribes, because humans are naturally cheaper than most teams, and he has no rerolls (just 1). If you let him play his game (ie. don't tie his entire team every turn early on), you will lose. Its not a GREAT team, a grinder team can really mess it up with mass guard or mass S4. The thing it IS great at though, is killing elves&rookie humans&undead etc.

So I'd suggest this kind of team myself:
Take all the human positionals!
1 Reroll, apoth
3 dirty players on the first skillups, especially catchers (barring blitzers, who need guard)
Guard x 5 on blitzer/ogre.
Wrestle on all liners

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:17 pm

Biff - that's right, the Linos are the obvious players to give Wrestle to.

I am not so sure about the Catchers. The main issue is their ST2. It would be possible to go the Wrestle route, but then you have to also factor in the need for Dauntless, Tackle and/or Strip Ball, plus the normal defensive skills (Sidestep, Fend). That's rather more skills than one player can easily bear, especially if you want to give them Diving Catch first, or if they get stat increases!

For some races, giving Wrestle to the Catchers works well (Pro-Elves are a good example). So it could certainly be done with Humies. But I have developed my current Human side to have a killer offense (2+ pass with RR to 2+ Catch with RR), so I have preferred Block on the Catchers, in order to keep them standing on offense.

I am finding that giving Wrestle to Linos enables you to delay giving Tackle to the Blitzers (on your turn, Wrestle vs. Blodge is pretty much as good as Block/Tackle vs. Blodge).

Hope this helps.

Biff · Post by **Biff** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:53 pm

Smeborg wrote: Hope this helps.

Yup, thanks. More or less what I thought.

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm

Hi there!

I am prolly a bit late, but I always love an oppertunity to vent my opinion...

IMO you need more Guard. In order to be able to keep up with Bashy teams and press your advantage versus agile teams.

I agree with some of the previous commenters that Catchers do well with Block. I sometimes go with Wrestle (combines nicely with Strip Ball). Block-catchers get dauntless in my team, so I can use my Catchers as Blitzer, and equip the Blitzers with Guard, Stand Firm, Tackle and Mighty Blow.

I usually develop 2 throwers, a throwing one (Accurate) and a defensive one (Block). The Throwy one gets fired as the third skill is no stat increase or double roll.

Just my 2 cents....
best of luck!

wedge22 · Post by **wedge22** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:06 am

Thanks for the advice, no new skills in my Game 6 against Orcs, but I did win the game 2-1 and none of my players were MNG even though I had 5 CAS on my team. The 1 CAS I caused was my #3 Catcher using Dauntless to hit the Troll, with an assist, got the Troll down and rolled double boxcars, then managed to BH him for the rest of the game, well chuffed with that.