Dump off and Spiked Ball

[Aliboon]

What would happen if a dump off player had the spiked ball, got blocked, threw the ball at an opo player who then failed their catch roll and the subsequent AV roll? (spiked ball means that unsucessful catches/pick ups count as stabs)

I'm thinking that the original block on the ball carrier would still be undertaken (as it triggers the dump off, so the dump off can't occur without the block), but then it would be a turnover as a player on the moving team would have been knocked down given the failed AV roll.

Even more devious would be throwing the ball at the blocker, I reckon that the block would still happen as it would be simultaneous as the ball stabbing them.

Am I right or am I being too sneaky?

[Ullis]

...and any action being taken ends immediately even if it was only partially completed.

Nice idea!

The above quote shows that turnovers end actions immediately, so I don't think you'd get to throw the block in the first place. Dump off is triggered by the block, sure, but it happens before the block dice are thrown in the first place. So in my opinion the turnover happens before the actual effects of the block (throwing the block dice) are carried out. This would especially be the case if the spiked ball was passed to the blocker as he wouldn't be standing around to throw the block.

EDIT: I looked at Dump Off and it says that no turn overs should happen.

...except that neither team’s turn ends as a result of the throw whatever it may be... After the throw is worked out your
opponent completes the block, and then carries on with his turn.

But the blocker still wouldn't get to throw the block dice as he was knocked down. The second part of the quote shows that the throw is worked out prior to the block.

[Grumbledook]

Does dump off allow you to throw the ball at an opponent or does it say you can do a quick pass to a team mate?

Don't have the rulebook here at work.

[Baduk]

quick pass and indeed no turnover "as a result of the throw whatever it may be"

This skill allows the player to make a Quick Pass when an opponent
declares that he will throw a block at him, allowing the player to get rid of
the ball before he is hit. Work out the Dump-Off pass before the
opponent makes his block. The normal throwing rules apply, except that
neither team’s turn ends as a result of the throw whatever it may be and
Dump-Off cannot be Pass Blocked. After the throw is worked out your
opponent completes the block, and then carries on with his turn. Dump-
Off may not be used on the second block from an opponent with the
Frenzy skill or in conjunction with the Bombardier or Throw Team-Mate
skills.

[Darkson]

Man, that is sneaky - there's no way the player can complete the Block if they've failed the AV roll, but as Dump Off explicity says there's no Turnover as a result of the throw, I'd argue that the rest of the team can complete it's turn.

But as I said, sneaky.



I like that!

[Fat_Emrys]

Ah, but Nuffle is bound to reward such sneakiness with one of two options - either the blocker will catch the ball (and then hurt the thrower when he throws the block) or, if the blocker is successfully downed then the ball will scatter back to the thrower who will fail to catch it and fail the AV roll.

[lunchmoney]

one of my league thought of this variant on a theme here;

spiked ball in play,
dump off guy is blocked,
quick pass is thrown at another player on the active team ie not the one throwing the block,
he fails to catch,
ball breaks armour and player is injured.

it that a turnover? does the block still happen?

[Darkson]

it that a turnover? does the block still happen?

As stated above, the Dump Off text says there's no turnover as a result of the throw, so I'd say no.

[lunchmoney]

that was my thoughts as well. cheers for backing me up there

[Ironjaw]

I'm sure I've been in a discussion like this before using the goblin bomber with dump off to give a last chance bomb throw. It makes blocking the Bomber extra risky...

[Ullis]

I'm sure I've been in a discussion like this before using the goblin bomber with dump off to give a last chance bomb throw. It makes blocking the Bomber extra risky...

Sorry, but Dump Off states that it doesn't work together with Bombardier.

[funnyfingers]

Well the question is would aiming at an opponent be counted as an interception? Actually the BOTOCS client interpretted an aim at an opponent a a normal catch roll.

Spiked Ball does not count for interceptions rolls.

[funnyfingers]

Actually reading the rules, it looks like it would be a normal catch attempt.

"The player can throw the ball to another player in
his own team (or another player in the opposing team if he really
wants to),..."

"If the ball lands in a square occupied by a standing player, then
the player must attempt to catch the ball. Prone and Stunned
players may never attempt to catch the ball. Either team’s
players may attempt to catch the ball (if a player from the other
team manages to catch the ball he can yell and jump around a
lot)."

[Fat_Emrys]

Well the question is would aiming at an opponent be counted as an interception? Actually the BOTOCS client interpretted an aim at an opponent a a normal catch roll.

Quite right too. The thrower wouldn't get a completion, of course, but otherwise it's a normal pass.

Spiked Ball does not count for interceptions rolls.

What the rulebook says is that a failed interception roll (unlike a failed pickup or catch) doesn't count as a stab attack. Any interception attempt on a spiked ball is risk-free as if you fail to intercept you don't get kebabbed. The idea recipient for a dumped-off spiked ball, then, would be a low AV opponent without Nerves of Steel who's standing in two or more of your players' tackle zones.

[Baduk]

man, that's just nasty