Ogre guide

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sann0638
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Ogre guide

Post by sann0638 »

I've written one - lots of it is basic, but I've assumed that it's for starting coaches. I'm going to edit it a bit more over time, and then probably stick it on my club website for Plasmoid to link to it. Thoughts welcome!

LITTLE AND LARGE - A GUIDE TO LEAGUE PLAY WITH OGRES

If you choose to play ogres, you will rely on dice more than with any other team. Ogres will roll for bonehead every turn, and snotlings will also dodge through multiple tackle zones. Add in frequent 3 dice blocks (and more frequent 3 dice blocks against you) and if Nuffle is against you, you are stuffed. However, if the game goes well the feeling of satisfaction is immense.

The following is a combination of my thoughts and some stuff from discussion on TBB.

TEAM SELECTION

The 1m gp starting league team is straightforward (with a choice of only 2 players).

4 Ogres – 560k
9 snots – 180k
3 rerolls – 210k
Apothecary – 50k

or

4 ogres - 560k
8 snots - 160k
4 rerolls - 280k

The first game will be hard work with only 12/13 players – you may well start the second half short of players. But if you don’t have an apo for the first game it makes every injury roll for ogres extremely nerve-wracking, and obviously rerolls double in cost once you start.

Try to get as many snots as you can on an ongoing basis, getting up to 15 rostered players quickly, but it’s worth leaving a spot open for a star. No need to fire snots, but as soon as they pick up AG/MA reductions stick them on the LOS on defence to save the ogres. Save up for ogres 5 and 6 after getting enough snots

OFFENCE

The main choice on offence is whether to carry the ball with an ogre or a snotling, and this will have a major influence on how you play. I always carry the ball with snotlings, so will concentrate on this play style.

Hugging the sideline

With sidestep on the snotlings, you need have no fear of the sidelines, and it makes caging a whole lot easier. The basic strategy is to get within 7 squares of the endzone and then let the dice do the work, rolling 2+ on all dodges (with rerolls) and GFIs. Snotlings do not work as a regular cage because of Titchy, so a loose cage is more important, making attackers dodge as much as possible to get to the ball carrier:

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On your turn, simply move the cage forward, rolling lots of dodges and hopefully using Break Tackle on the ogres to assist their mobility, punching anyone silly enough to stand next to them. Diving Tackle is needed to make this tactic work against elves, unfortunately.

The traditional cage can work, but only with Ogres on the corners, and it’s fairly easy to slow down and Bonehead can cause big problems. With a sideline cage, Bonehead can be managed more easily.

If you do get bogged down, there’s always the TTM option, which should mean that your opponent will not be able to commit as many players to attacking the cage as they may want to keep people back.

Throw Team-Mate for scoring

Any discussion of TTM should begin by staying this is not a viable winning tactic. If you go for the one-turn score every time you get the ball (with a rookie team), you will inevitably lose. However, it has its uses, and becomes exponentially more useful as the team develops. And of course, if you kicked off in the half, you will always (barring riots) have one turn in which to try to score. To maximise your chances, it’s worth saving a team reroll if you will have the chance at a TTM score.

The important parts of the TTM setup – 2 snotlings in the wide zones, 3 deep to pick up the ball, and a Strong Arm ogre in the middle. The rest does not matter.

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If the ball lands behind the back line of snotlings, you’re fairly stuffed. If not, pick it up and handoff to the left or right snotling. Then move the ogre in front of the snotling:

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You can throw the snotling 6 squares, and the snotling is able to move 7. The ogre is already one square into the half. This means that if the snot lands 2 or 3 scatters back towards you, you will not be able to score. Giving Sprint to the snotling reduces this to 3 scatters back, as does an MA increase, as does quick snap. A combination of these means that the scatter effect can be reduced.

With a Strong Arm ogre, for the OTS you need to roll the following. Skills to help them are in brackets.
3+ pickup (sure hands, AG)
2+ possible GFI to reach the thrown snot (sure feet, MA, sprint)
3+ catch (catch, AG)
2+ bonehead (pro)
2+ non-fumbled throw (pass)
4+ land (AG)
2+ GFI/dodges as required (sure feet, MA, sprint)

So lots of dice rolls, but the TTM play is one of the most exciting in the game, and that wouldn’t be the case without the dice!

Skills to help TTM

Sure Feet/Sprint – SF gives you more certainty of making 7 squares, Sprint gives you the possibility of making 8 squares. Do you trust your D8 or your D6 more?
Catch – extra reroll for the hand off
Strong Arm – 2+ instead of 3+ on the throw

DEFENCE

When your opponent has the ball, there are only a few things you can really try:

- Break Tackle to dodge an ogre into the cage. This is actually really effective, as a standard cage means a 4+ dodge, and ogres don’t have loner. If you can negate one of the assists with another ogre, then it should still be at least 2 dice on the block. Bertha Bigfist can also be useful for this tactic.
- Diving Tackle, then audacious dodges with snots to get them into annoying positions. NB this does NOT mean ever standing next to an opponent at the end of your turn.
- Kill them all! You have 4-6 players with S5 and Mighty Blow, possibly some with Piling On, maybe a Dirty Player or a Chainsaw? What are you waiting for?
- Missile snots: pretty much a desperation play, but try throwing snots at the cage. Not really recommended, in fairness!
- Wizards can be effective, as once the ball is loose you should be able to swarm snotlings in to surround it and make it more difficult to pick up. This is high risk however as swarming with snotlings may mean leaving them standing next to players, which often means a sticky end.

SKILL SUMMARY

Ogres
Most: Break Tackle, Guard, Juggernaut
Thrower: Strong Arm, Break Tackle
Killer: Piling On, Guard, Juggernaut

On a double, take Block. Second double, Dodge. If you are going for an ogre ball carrier, take Sure Hands.

MA/AV – I normally take move, as it allows an ogre to become a sweeper in the back field and cover the field effectively. AV helpful in a scrap, obviously. On a double 5 use the double.
AG – Take this, as if you find yourself winning then you can get the ball to him more easily which might help you to hold on to it. Also, this allows a passing game to be developed, which is impossible with Stunty. If you go this root, take LRB5+ Diving Catch on a snotling, and follow up the AG with Strong Arm (Sure Hands on double).
ST – As this is a double, I think the tactical decision would be to take block, but the emotional decision would be to take the strength just to create a monster.

Snotlings
Most: Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Sure Feet. See discussion in Offence & Defence.
2 x Scorers: Sure Feet, Sprint, Catch. See discussion in Offence/TTM.
Fouler: If a rookie gets a double, consider Dirty Player, then Sneaky Git
Catcher: If you get an AG3 ogre, consider Diving Catch, Catch.

Doubles:
Leader first, then Kick, then Dirty Player, though by the time of your 3rd double the first 2 doubles may well have died.

MA/AV – take the move: see Offence discussion.
AG – SUPER MEGA AMAZINGLY BRILLIANT. Take it.
ST – ignore it, take the double.

OTHER OPTIONS

Hail Mary Pass can be used effectively on a snotling, but only really if your opponent forgets you have it, otherwise a sweeper or two can easily negate the tactic.

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Post by Kapten Vendetta »

Hi, I like it, a few pointers at the top of my head however (dealing with Bone 'ead working for you, yes you read it right):o :

1) You might want to address the most simple of Bone 'ead solutions; not doing anything! It might seem like a no brainer, but it is a viable tactic for the large 'uns.

Example:

An Ogre is standing next to two opposing players, something that may well come up throughout the game (especially against slower and/or bashier teams) and is somewhere far from where the rest of the action is, and you would think: "Hey! A 2d-block! Sweetness!" and you roll a 1 for the Bone 'ead. No big deal you say? Far from the action was it? Well, consider that you just gave two opposing players a free pass to do whatever, it might become quite a big deal. Perhaps even letting them reach your own lines with superior movement, at which point you've just essentially lost an Ogre, not being the fastest lads around he might not reach anything before it is to late, if at all. Provided he remembers how in the first place...

Point being made:

Sometimes it is better to be patient, not risk losing TZ's (and opposing players needing to dodge away to escape) instead of going for the more greedy "It's a 2d-block with Mighty Blow! FTW!" A single Ogre occupying two (and sometimes three) players with his mere presence (and TZ's) might be worth more in the long run then trying to get that (oh so elusive) CAS.

2) Occupation. Even an Ogre whom has lost his TZ's due to a poor Bone 'ead roll can still be part of the game; simply by being there occupying a square.

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The Ogre might not be a part of the game in his mind, but his body still forces an opponent to go around, into TZ's of say Snotlings with Diving Tackle.

Point being made:

If you fail (and you will) what can you do to salvage it? This is one option, square control, enabling your Snots with DT (or other Ogres) to spread out a bit more and still cover a lot of ground with TZ's, due to a stupid Ogre standing in the way between them. It's making lemonade with lemons. :)

Just a few notes, make of it what you will.

P.S. You should address the Snotling bomb; a Snot' being TTM'ed into a cage hoping to knock something down, perhaps even the ballcarrier, but even knocking down a corner of the cage might be enough to do a more reliable blitz against the carrier. Remember; it's not a turnover to throw a wee 'un without a ball, even if he lands on his nose.

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Post by plasmoid »

A few thoughts to incorporate:

Team strengths:
*6 strong and bashy ogres
*Very mobile linemen

Team weaknesses
*Snots break easily, which means ogres can find themselves outnumbered - you need a deep bench
*Ogre TZs disappear, and snot TZs don't work properly - so you have to come prepared for the fact that opposing teams will run right through you. You need Diving Tackle snotlings to compensate. Use them to block running lanes without actually standing next to anyone.

Moving the ball
As a starting team, I let the kick-off decide who runs the ball. If it goes near the LOS and I have 8 turns, I try to run the ball with an ogre. Anything else and a snotling gets it.

A designated ogre ball carrier becomes a lot more viable as soon as you have break tackle. I've had great success with a break tackle + sure hands ogre.

ReRolls and team composition:
Just like with a vampire team, the ratio between rerolls and ogres has to be right. Too many ogres with too few rerolls will just lose you games due to bonehead. Generally, I wouldn't buy the 6th ogre until I have the 4th reroll. In fact, ogres are so harsh on TV that I've often found myself doing quite well with an ogre or two missing the game! So I'd definately recommend apoth, 4th reroll and a 14 man roster before buying the 6th ogre.

Also, high TV is a real problem for the ogre team. Even though lots of rerolls is tempting, it isn't necessarily a winning strategy. Learn to be economic with your rerolls - sometimes you just have to suck up that blown block or failed bonehead... Or maybe not even throw the block at all, if your player is in a key position.

On snotling doubles:
Ogre TV climbs really fast, so it is at least worth considering a snotling leader. It will cut 4 points of TV - if you can keep him alive.
A dirty player is high on the list - because it is too risky to foul with ogres, and you need to be able to deal with an opposing snotling killer fast, before he carts off half your team!!
But, IMO, losing snotlings is often what loses you games - so I'd take block or wrestle on almost all my doubles. Block is tempting, but as your ogres are unlikely to ever get tackle, wrestlers may give you an extra option for dealing with opposing blodgers.

Cheers Mike :D
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Post by plasmoid »

Oh yeah, I took a catch snot early.
It gave me a hand-off option when running the ball on an ogre got me stuck. It also gave me a player to throw to when trying to skill up snots with an MVP.

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Post by lucasluckydelux »

Great posts. Completely agree with them.

I love my ogres :)

Specially my ogre with ag3 and sure hands and my snotling with ag4.

http://labb.comunidadumbria.com/hojaEqu ... quipo=1867

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by stenfan »

Thanks for your thoughts! I think your ideas will improve my game alot.

What do you think about getting a dauntless snot? I think it can be pretty useful against S3 ball carriers in cages.

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by Wanchor »

Could be worth a shot, I guess, more so when coupled with another Snotling with Guard (yeah, right). Considering their life expectancy, I would'nt expect many snotlings to last to a doubles roll or long after getting one, so Leader would be my first choice, then Sure Hands. Other stuff would be fun as a novelty or gimmick, but that's about all.

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by sann0638 »

This can now be found as a word document here, incorporating suggestions made above.

Plasmoid's putting a collection of these together - thoughts still welcome.

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by duttydave »

A nice guide. Thanks. I've not much experience with Ogres and this guide looks like a good starting point.

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by gamesvaultsteve »

Hi there,

I play ogres and found the guide really useful.

I started with
6 ogres
6 snotlings

and saved up for my first reroll. Bad mistake. In hindsight I would have taken;

4 Ogres – 560k
9 snots – 180k
3 rerolls – 210k
Apothecary – 50k

I try and play as the guide says which works really well.

The thing I have found is treating the snotlings like one player and having them run round in a "gang" has worked well for me.

They even managed to KO 2 thralls in my last game!!!! Which depsite losing 2-0 counts as a win in my book.....

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by trentusdementus »

At 1 million, I started with:

3 Ogres
12 Snotlings
4 Rerolls
1 Apothecary
-----------------
990k

"Try to get as many Snotlings as you can on an ongoing basis, get up to 15 rostered players quickly, but it’s worth leaving a spot open for a star."
This is vital. With a ST of 1, Snotlings must gang-up and foul downed opponents to be effective. This is an unpopular but lethal tactic. If you have 10 to 12 Snotlings then you shouldn't worry about one getting tossed from the game (they're almost disposable), so foul every turn you can. (Sneaky Git is great here!)
(Let's face it, you're playing possibly the worst team in the game. Use every advantage you can get.)

"With SideStep on the Snotlings, you need have no fear of the sidelines.
True and most coaches are wary when it comes to placing players near the sidelines. Use that fear.

"Any discussion of Throw Team-Mate should begin by saying this is not a viable winning tactic. "
I could not agree more. That being said, I try it every chance I get.
Skills that help: Snotlings - Sure Feet, Sprint / Ogres - Break Tackle, Strong Arm
Remember: Save a Team Reroll. This play takes multiple successful rolls. You'll probably need the Reroll.

"Missile snots : pretty much a desperation play, but try throwing Snotlings at the cage."
This play is so much fun, I love it! If you can hit a player after three scatter rolls, it's an automatic Knockdown! (I call them Snot Rockets!)

Try not to leave any Snotlings beside an opposing player at the end of your turn. They turn into exploding meat puppets! (ST 1; AV 5)

As for skill progression, I have some ideas that most will scoff at.
Before you do, STOP and think it through.

Ogres first skill: Break Tackle : a mobile Ogre is a vicious Ogre. Many times I have been held in place by an single Lineman. If you have only 3 or 4 Ogres, mobility is a must. Go with Juggernaut or Strong Arm (depending on the role played) when you get your second skill up.

Ogres first double skill up: Pro : I know, I know. Everybody says Block. Well, if your Ogre is a Bonehead then he losses his tackle zones until you make another roll. Pro allows (50/50) a Bonehead reroll every turn without using the team rerolls! (Which you will need to Throw Team-Mate. So save them.)
The Ogres high strength makes up for a lack of Block if played properly but, even still, go with Block if you get a second double.

Snotlings first skill: Sure Feet. Nothing is worse than having a Snotling one square from the end zone, and when you Go For It, he falls over and breaks his neck. (Once again, save those team rerolls.) Go with Sneaky Git or Sprint when you get a second skill up.

Snotling first double skill up: Wrestle. You can put this Snotling on the line of scrimmage and maybe he'll survive. If he doesn't, your Team Value goes down (always a good thing with this team). Depending on the role of Snotlings on your team, you could go with Sure Hands. ( I personally alternate between the two.)

As funny as it sounds, the secret to this team is mobility.

The Snotlings are built for it and with Break Tackle, the Ogres become very mobile.
You can move and attack with the Blitz(move and Block), the Pass(move and Throw Team-Mate), and the Foul(move and check armor). Only the Vampire team has this much mobile attack. (So do the other Stunty teams, but Ogres are the best of them IMO).

Try not to stay next to any player with any of your Snotlings(unless you foul). And try to stay next to multiple players(as many as you can) with your Ogres. Force your opponent to Blitz your Snotlings and Dodge away from your Ogres. Stay fluid and keep moving. Forget the cage and try what I like to call: The Fence (very similar to the cage except it is spaced out 1 more space).

The idea behind the fence is to make your opponent make two or three Dodge rolls to get to the ball carrier, as opposed to one Dodge roll with a negative modifier. The good thing about the fence is that it is spread out and stops the opposition from going around(not always necessary to box it in, especially if you're around the sidelines). They must go through it. With a little luck, the fence becomes an ambush and can be full of fouls!

You're saving up to hire your fourth and fifth Ogres. Meanwhile you can replace your dead Snotlings. But only replace your Snotlings when they die. Who cares if they get injured?

Well. That's all for now.

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by sann0638 »

Some good points in there Mr Dementus. I've never taken Pro on an ogre, but can see your point. However, I block/blitz with Ogres more than I fail bonehead with them, so wouldn't personally look beyond Block, at least on the first couple. Maybe Pro on a dedicated Thrower, but then I wouldn't trust the TTM reroll to pro, so maybe on a dedicated Thrower I would take Pass. Probably still Block though!

Would you really take Wrestle before Leader on a double, given how important rerolls are?

And the fence is a good idea, especially next to the sideline. Still can't stop elveses though!

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by trentusdementus »

sann0638 wrote: Would you really take Wrestle before Leader on a double, given how important rerolls are?
I would rather take Wrestle on a Snotling because they have a limited life span. If they are off the pitch then I can't use Leader. Most of my rerolls are used on my Ogres anyway. Maybe if I rolled doubles a second time I would take Leader but then, what about Dauntless? Dauntless allows my Snotlings to be cage breakers. I did consider Leader but found out that you can only have one leader. In any case, A star Snotling tends to get hunted and killed rather quickly so I would chose a skill that would keep it alive just a little bit longer.

Why do I hate elves? Oh, there are multiple reasons...too many to get into here.(Hint: I'm an old Dungeon Master.)

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by Carnis »

+1 for wrestling snotlings. I used to play ogres, albeit not very successfully (probably around the median 35-45% really).

Wrestle keeps him alive, guard&leader make him a target..

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Re: Ogre guide

Post by trentusdementus »

I think Wrestle is the only skill which I would pay for on a 50k Snotling. :D

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