Assymmetrical defences

[Mad Banker]

That offset defense is rather cool. I use a similar variant in similar circumstances. Keeping the midfielders behind the line two squares back prevents chainpushes from ruining the coverage, and prevents Frenzy from generating extra blocks off of chainpushes. Note that while only two players are protected, there are no viable interior blitz options: the only way in is on the wings. Effectively, you get four free midfielders.

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The 123 Overload
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321 Offset Load, for when you've dealt with the Runners.
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Overload with a Side Step wing.
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Offset Load with a Side Step wing and a free flanker.
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As quoted above, there was a start of discussion on asymmetrical defences in Matt's topic on formation names.
I find this concept very interesting and I think it deserves further discussion and its own topic.

I personally never thought about using asymmetrical defences (I might be symmetrically conditioned ) but when I come to think of it, they can be very surprising for your opponent and quite effective with teams like Slanns, Skaven or Elves.
Do you use asymmetry in your defensive setups? If yes, in which circumstances? Only against slow teams when you have a kicker? Or are there other uses?

[mattgslater]

I like to have a couple Side Step players on an elf-style team before I start setting up asymmetrical defenses: they add a lot of options, because they can cover an extra square if positioned properly, and can let you build around a key strength or weakness.

I don't have time for great depth right now, but the major point of my asymmetrical defenses is uaually to force the opponent to build a strong side to cover up for weak points (such as missing players) or to win one side of the backfield battle uncontested, giving my Kicker an obvious target.

[sunnyside]

I'm still a newer BB player.

But my Norse have tried out asymetrical defenses a couple of times and I'm generally pleased with it.

I find it useful against both slower teams, and teams that rely on a handfull of skilled up heavy hitters but are otherwise relatively soft.

It is useful without it, but it really comes into its own with kick. It allows for kicking deep into either corner, which is how I'd play against the bashy teams Norse have trouble with anyway, but if they neglect the weakside you can also kick to the weakside corner nearer to the LOS.

Though compared to those formations, I tend to scoot the backfield more toward the weakside. The MA on the backfielders is enough to immediatly get into it if they do go for that side, where having their players between Frenzy positionals and the crowd puts me at an advantage anyway. I'd rather be better defended against the other side, and give more players the option to rush behind their line if they don't get the ball carrier protected well. Well, I suppose more like that fourth one there.

Finally. while I've never played that way, I speculate that asymetrical defenses would be very effective in a setting where the four minute time limit on a turn is enforced. Presumably most people aren't used to playing against them, and will make mistakes when the clock is ticking.

I look forward to more advice on this matter though

[besters]

Haven't used them much, but it does give people something different to think about, and worthwhile for that.

Besters

[mattgslater]

My High Elves going up against an Orc team without a whole lot of skills next week. I'm a huge overdog, so I'm not too concerned, but I have several players who are close to improving and should get some time with the ball. Notably, he has no Frenzy or Tackle and no Goblins, and only the Troll has Guard.

For my defense, here's what I'm planning.

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Key:
S = Side Step plus Block or Dodge
D = Dodge
4 = ST4, Block
K = Kick
G = Guard
X = None of the above

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[Funksultan]

There is some great content here Matt, thanks a ton!

(any chance you could put some of the "basic" offenses and defenses together, and then list some of these as advanced tactics? Worthy of a sticky to new and old BB players alike)

[mattgslater]

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Key:
S = Side Step plus Block or Dodge
D = Dodge
4 = ST4, Block
K = Kick
G = Guard
X = None of the above

Here's a slight variant. Note that in this diagram the left flanker is another square back. This is me chickening out against the threat of a Quick Snap. See how the midfielder is in the same spot, though? That's important to keep the centerfielder dry.

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I can just as easily switch X out for the same centerfielder; the more I think about it, the more I like it. The downside is that the ST4 player can only just get across the wide marker without a GFI, and both he and the Guard player could get neutralized together. Still, the only way to do that is to overload the empty side, which will open room for me to kick deep and to the right.

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However it's done, the SS'er on the left end has Block, and the one on the nose has Dodge. If the end goes down, he goes down and inwards to block off movement up the middle.

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This way, if the nose (with Dodge) just gets pushed, he can go straight back, and the net is maintained.

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It's vulnerable to both of them getting knocked down: no matter how I fall I open a hole. I doubt he's reading this, but just in case he is I won't show how I'd negotiate a (5/9 x 19/27) 95/243, or 39% chance to get two knockdowns against these two SS'ers without blitzing or running in self-defeating TZs. Still, 61% to hose the blitz is better odds than most defenses get.

Conversely, if the end is just pushed, he can go straight back, and from there it doesn't matter whether or not the nose keeps his feet, so long as he doesn't get KO'ed.

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"Both Down": any interior blitz to "4" opens no practical hole, and is 1d vs. Block even if a Block BOB is used.
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"Pow"
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Blitzes to the right wing are either 1d Blitzer vs. Dodge or a BOB vs. Dodge (I don't know if he has a Block BOB or not); neither one has better than a 1/3 chance at opening more than a one-square hole, too narrow and deep for his MA to cage up on the left, unless he's willing to contain it in his backfield, and even then I'll cut his linemen off and he'll have a heck of a time getting anywhere. Blitzes to the left involve overloading the o-line away from the d-line, making it very easy to thwart the cage with the Kick skill, adding to my chances to thwart the blitz. So he'll have to cage right, either again telegraphing for my kick or spreading out and softening the cage.

[corlm]

Side Step seems to be the key to most asymetrical setups but is it possible to make similar deep setups with a str team?

[Grumbledook]

Use Stand Firm instead

[mattgslater]

You don't need positioning skills to set up a good aysmmetrical line, but if you don't have them you're going to have either an uncovered player or a gap. Now, you do get to pick where the soft spot is in relation to your line. Also, sideline gaps are a great way of dealing with Frenzy. An asymmetric line can either make the gap hard to take advantage of or force the opponent to sell out on it. This keeps you from getting caged on in the middle, which is important: for all that sideline cages are easier to secure, it's even more true that they're easier to pin down.

Stand Firm is the poor cousin to Side Step. Side Step lets you put up a screen (x - - x) and maintain formation on a push. Stand Firm doesn't, but it does let you maintain a fence (x - x) even in the face of a knockdown. This is decidedly less useful, but a lot better than nothing, especially against low-AG teams.

Asymmetry doesn't really speak to heavy teams, though. The primary purpose of the asymmetrical line is to force the offense to build a strong side. As a speed team this is good because you can kick the other way and take control of the offside before your opponent can adjust. If you're running a heavy team, your opponent probably had to make a strong side on their own to take advantage of any hole they can make, and the kick only matters if the opponent fails to secure the ball. So asymmetry on heavy teams is usually a subtle affair that takes advantages of individual players' skills, and just moves the screens around a little on one side, or draws a player from the backfield up to the LOS. Like a "half-ziggurat" is an option for a team who has a single side stepper, and an Orc team with a Blodge/Stand Firm Troll and a couple Guard/SF BOBs could set up a 4-man line, confident that the presence of the Troll on one side will make up for the lack of a midfielder or safety.

But yeah, I could see getting mileage out of Stand Firm to build asymmetrical defenses for teams like Humans, Norse and Necromantic. Or even for a harder-hitting team against another bash team, I guess: I could see a shallow-kicking Orc attack that could take great advantage of an offset line against Khemri or Dwarfs. Never done it before, but I could imagine it.

Another use for asymmetry is if you're down-men. If you're at 9 guys you could just not field any safeties, or you could drop the flankers inside and move the wingers in to their position, or you could cede the wide zones and stack up in the middle, or you could drop back deep... or you could just drop one whole wing and go asymmetrical.

[mattgslater]

Whitetiger posted some cool asymmetrical setup tricks a few years ago in this great thread on Dark Elven defenses making use of Diving Tackle, but I don't think you'd be able to search effectively by thread titles. I don't remember the specifics, though.

[Tanan]

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Key:
M = Morg/Bertha
D = Deeproot
T = Treeman
H = Halfling

I use the following set-up with my halfling team against fully developed "team-killers" (MB+Claw/PO, Guard and DP spammers).

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Tactics:
- If any of the three halflings on the scrimmage stay on the field, they stay down or foul the MB+PO players.
- I try not to activate the treemen during the first two turns.
- Morg/Bertha blitzes if someone comes within 3-4 squares of the treeline and GFIs back to the line if necessary.
- Halflings are used for throwing, assists and fouling

I use this set-up is against Elf teams without frenzy or guard

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