Starting Goblins?

[Kapten Vendetta]

Hi, just dug up my old Goblin team from the boxes in the attic, and began musing over the possibility of playing 'em the next time our league rolls around, come January or so.

My question to you, honoured goblin-mastercoaches; The best way to composite a starting team? I thought something along the lines of;

9 Goblins
2 Trolls
Pogoer, Looney & Fanatic
& 4 Re-Rolls.

My biggest concern would be the Fanatic, is he worth it (over a 5th Re-Roll)? What of the Bombardier? Something for the starter team or no?

Playing goblins you should prepare for losing games (and consequently gaining inducements) and thus getting those potential starplayers. In your opinion; is a second set of ball & chain and/or chainsaw-welding madmen (via stars) something to consider? Or would you rather get some bribes and be done with it? (Thus keeping your regulars on the pitch another drive).

As far as inducements goes, given the opportunity which once would you pick?

Also; according to the subject-sticky regarding skill-choices; do you agree with Diving Tackle for goblins as the go-to-skill, seeing as they only get to chose from the agility column? What of catch? Useful for hand-offs and gettin' the ball farther up the pitch or when changing sides no?

Trolls? Is it worth it with Guard for these lads, seeing as a guarded goblin (why would you stand in a position with a goblin to be guarded in the first place?) still is rather likely to get a 1d block against him. Seems like a waste of a skill. Especially considering that your gobbos' should be standing behind a troll for that ohh-so important really stupid roll, rather than standing in harms way. Or am I wrong? 1d is better than 2d surely, but still? Grab (to move players away from your gobbos) or Stand Firm seems like better options. Normally I would agree that Guard is a no-brainer skill, but guarding S2 gobbos? What say you?

[Storch]

My opinions, mind you:

Chainsaw? Yes.
Fanatic? Yes.
Bombardier? If you like him, though he hasn't been working for me as of late.

As for inducements, I think it depends on your play style. I like developed players and, with goblins, that is even more of an accomplishment, so I would go bribes. That is not to saw I wouldn't induce, say, a second chainsaw vs. dwarves.

On the diving tackle issue, I would say probably. The problem with catch is there really isn't anybody good to do the throwing, so catch is not really all that useful. If you are really lucky with AG+'s and doubles, you could maybe build a passer, but I'm not sure I would recommend it.

I also think there is a good argument to be made for Guard on trolls. Think about where your chainsaw ends up after fouling the guy your troll just dropped and you will see the value of guard.

[PubBowler]

For a different view:

Ripper is what the Gobo team is all about.
You need him as a reliable Blitzer, LOS guy and better TTM option. #

220 2 Trolls
360 9 Goblins
120 2 Rerolls
20 2 FF

280 Bank

Gives you the inducements you require to get Riper for the first game.
As your opponent TV increase, I'd get a rostered Looney, Pogoer (assuming LRB6) & Fanatic. PLus a reroll and apoth.
If you can start your league games against someone who has already played and has a TV or 103 or higher, spend some mone and FF on getting a 3rd reroll.

I wouldn't take a Bombardier in a league (unless it was overwhelming AG2 cagey) as it takes 2 MVPs and a double (Hail Mary Pass) to make him better than an induced one.

[Wanchor]

My league doesn't allow star players, so my advice might not even be totally relevant, but the Bombardier is generally the least effective star player. The Pogoer is a solid 'maybe' - the better movement is the real bonus unless your opponents have Diving Tackle all over the place.

I've had some very satisfying results with Diving Tackle on my gobbos, but it alone won't bring victory. I'd say maybe six players with it, tops. Jump Up and Side Step are handy too. I've never chosen Catch, but Diving Catch, which can help bring the ball in on those desperation plays. Early on, I was of the same mind as you concerning the trolls and Guard, but once taking it, it made my team much more defensible than the mere one assist would suggest. It makes him a more effective addition to a cage, which has its uses, as goblin cages tend to be looser and more short-lived, and circuitously protects himself on the line by protecting the gobbo next to him, who's usually only there for positioning purposes, like cancelling assists and preventing horrible stupidity checks.

As far as inducements go, I usually pick bribes. They're cheap and (usually) effective and even if something were to happen to a cheater early on, it counts for those fouls which you'll be certain to commit once your chainsaw has left the field.

[DoubleSkulls]

I tend to give all my gobbos sidestep as a first skill and diving tackle 2nd.

Only on doubles or stat increases do I do something different.

Under LRB6 I'd have all four specialists on the team... under LRB5 I think only three. The looney and fanatic are must haves. Then its a toss up between pogo (MA7 and dirty player) or bombs (great anti-cage weapon IMO).

[Wanchor]

The pogoer doesn't have Dirty Player anymore. Unless you voted that back in just now...

[DoubleSkulls]

I don't like having four secret weapons on the team. Its just too easy to get numbers down.

Under LRB6 this isn't an issue. So I'll take all the specialists.

Under LRB5 that means I need to choose between pogo (with DP) and bomber.

I don't think there is a need to stick to two secret weapons and the bomber can be very useful against cage teams.

[Joemanji]

When the LRB5 rules were being tested I ran a Goblin team in the MBBL that won its first 7 games straight. The key was keeping the chainsaws on the pitch and having lots of high ST players on the pitch.

For me, the team has to maximise its very few strengths:

1) The chainsaws. These guys are awesome if you can keep them alive. I have seen them remove a player from the pitch every turn for 5 or 6 turns in a row. They are very fragile though, which is where Guard on the Troll comes in. You need to get the Trolls next to your intended target, so that it is harder to blitz the chainsaw next turn. Otherwise just block off lanes to reach him with Goblins. Get him Dodge asap ... feed him TDs if you can no that he has lost No Hands. Don't let your opponent get an east blitz on a chainsaw.

2) High ST players. If you can get 2 trolls, your fanatic and one other high ST guy (Ripper or Fungus) on the pitch, you have a cage. Even with only 3 you can bung up the other corner with Goblins. Fanatics are brilliant when you are on offence, they are essentially an extra blitz (or 2 or 3).

I didn't bother with the Bomber. He is easy to shut down and a turnover machine because you can't control the scatter or opponent's catching the bomb. Plus I only like to run with 2 SWs ... any more and you can be down numbers too early.

IMO the rostered chainsaw and fanatic are better than the stars. Being able to use rerolls is a huge difference and makes them semi-reliable.

I'd start with:

2 Trolls
Looney
Fanatic
10 Goblins
4 rerolls
30k banked (or the pogo if you like him, I don't).

Skills Diving Tackle and Side Step in the order you prefer. One can get Sneaky Git. You can end up with Bribes left over if your SWs die, so having a fouling option is very useful.

Winning with Goblins is all about removing opposing players fast then using your numerical advantage to bully your opponent and remove more.

[Smeborg]

Joemanji - why don't you like the Pogo? It's just 3 points of TV for +1MA (same as +1MA would be on a normal Gobbo, which you would surely take). He is not a SW any more, so surely the MA alone is worth it? And you get Leap/VLL for "free".

Have I missed something?

[Joemanji]

He is fine. But he dies just a often as a normal Goblin and costs 70K to replace. He is a fun piece rather than an integral part of the team. When I was playing them it was LRB5, so maybe that clouds my judgement.

[Yelf]

Hi all!

I feel the same doubt about the pogoer as joemanji. Dont really know why, He just doesnt feel right. He is not sneakishly deavious with a secret weapon up his sleave, he just bounces around and cant be thrown by a troll.

Ive played 13 matches with a newstarted gobbo team and so far Ive won 7 tied 3 and lost 3. A pretty good score. Ive only fielded the chainsaw and trolls + ordinary gobbos. I went for 5 RR, do you think thats to much?

Anyhow i decided the team wont do great progress in terms of skills, so I might as well have as much fun as possible, so from now on Im going to hire all the SW. Unless someone has god reasons not to

Im enjoying this thread by the way (and Im not just saying that because I hade some wine (and beer) for dinner, I think)

Cheers!

[Smeborg]

Joemanji - isn't the problem with fielding 3 Secret Weapons that it contributes to your running out of players (which is quite easy to achieve for Gobbos)? Isn't that the main reason for taking 2 SW only?

I accept that rostered SW are generally better, because of their ability to re-roll without Loner, but isn't the Bombardier the exception among the SW (because the Star has Accurate, whereas the rostered player needs a double to get any skill that combines with his bomb-throwing ability)?

So isn't there a good case for keeping the Bombardier(s) to an inducement option?

All the best.

[MeatLoafX]

In an effort to shamelessly plug my friends' podcast, they are doing Goblins on the next show (or so I'm told - their Skaven episode comes out tomorrow and Goblins may be the next in line). I'm going to point the hosts to this page for some ideas and I'd recommend that people send their ideas on how to build a starting team to them as well at threedieblock@gmail.com .

Our leage doesn't allow star players either.

Here are some questions -
1. Is the Apoth important? You'd probably ever only use it on a troll or a SW with a lot of SPPs, but is it worth it?
2. There seems to be some disagreement about the bombadier - is it worth trying to skill one up in order to have an effective cage-breaker on the team?

The pogoer also lost "no hands", right? Doesn't that make him a decent ball carrier?

[Carnis]

Pogoer never had no hands. He lost dirty player & secret weapon though, he used to be great -> Foul every turn till you get sent off, never bothering with a bribe for this guy..

The bomber is underrated in this thread.

The bomber is really reliable, as long as you don't throw it on a player's square (unless he's prone). It's a tossup between the star & the rostered one. Rostered hits on a 4+ vs star on a 3+. The rostered one can use rerolls though, but you only need it every 6th time throwing QPs.

The trouble is ofc, you don't want to field all 5 SWs (fana+chain+bomb+2 star SWs). I'm fairly sure you should never go over 2. So you have to choose which 2 to field. Also whether you should use stars or rookies..

Should you roster or not:
Bomber vs Bomber star (first one more reliable, 2nd one hits more often)
Chainsaw vs star (rostered is DIRT CHEAP + more reliable)
Fanatic vs star (Rostered one more reliable, but loses 1MA & MB).. Star probably better until your rostered one gets MB too.

I'd probably go for Fanatic + either bomber or chainsaw. In our league the chainsaw has frequently been blitzed to death after 1-2 gobboes have left the pitch so I'm not so sure its worth it.

Friend of mine went Fanatic + Star-fanatic + ripper, that's worth considering, too.

[PubBowler]

While using the Bomber as an extra fouler has merit it keeps him close to the opposing team and he's fairly easy to take out of the game.

And I favour Grab over MB as first skill on a Fanatic.
Gets you a heap more armour rolls and still works on prone players.