+1 Str on a Chaos Warrior - Should I develop for tentacles?

Fenriswulf · Post by **Fenriswulf** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:15 pm

Good day,

I have recently skilled up a Chaos Warrior in the early stages of a League as a +1 str increase came up for my Chaos Warrior, and I was wondering if choosing tentacles for this guy would be a good option?

I was going to follow a plan given in another thread for my CW's;

2 CW's - Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow
2 CW's - Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw

But now that I have one with +1 Str, is it worth turning him into a tackle machine? By that I mean take Block next, then tackle, then tentacles? Is it worth it, and if so, which of the above could I do without the most?

If there is a better build out there for a guy with this amount of strength, I would love to hear about it. I could also guess this guy would be a menace with block, mighty blow and claw on him.

I have one beastman running amok at the moment with block, mighty blow and claw (who seems for some reason to only throw 'Defender Stumbles' results against Agi teams, much to my chagrin, but makes up for it with plenty of normal blocks against strength teams, go figure) if he is a good substitute for one of the missing CW's if I want to make a tackler/tentacle monster.

Any advice is appreciated!

Tarp · Post by **Tarp** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:08 pm

well... with +ST, block, Mighty Blow. you have your very own Lord Borak wannabe.

But then again all elfteams will hate you for a ST5, block, standfirm, tentackles, player

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:21 pm

I have to throw my vote towards making this guy your killer.
ST5, Block, Mighty Blow, Claws is a can opener and will always be useful.
I would skip guard on this guy and get him killy quick. The others can support in the mean time.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:24 pm

This guy is as strong as a BG without any of the negatraits. I would go with a Block, Claw, Mighty Blow route if you want maximum carnage, particularly if you are in a very bashy league.

But for a fast and dodgy league I would go with Block, Tentacles, Stand Firm, Tackle. (you can substitute Side Step for Stand Firm if you roll doubles)

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:35 pm

In ANY league:

Block, Tents, GUARD (SF).

Simply outstanding allrounder.

No point going for a killer, when you've "wasted" a skillup on str (doesn't help much at all in "killing").

S5 +Block/Tents/Guard will mean you'll have people throwing halfdie blocks to get rid of you. He can be a real meanie against every one basicly. I'd prioritize MB before stand firm on your other CWs. Although Guard/SF is a great combo, if you're spamming guard properly your CWs should be mostly facing half-1die blocks so block should generally be enough..

Generally your killers should be the beastmen anyway, to use the +1 STR from horns & the MA increase for your piling on.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:07 pm

Carnis wrote:No point going for a killer, when you've "wasted" a skillup on str (doesn't help much at all in "killing").

I don't get this one at all - more Strength means more dice to knock your opponents down which means more killing....

Powerhausen · Post by **Powerhausen** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Yeah, but the opposition will avoid him like the plague. He'll end up having to blitz most of the time, and as soon as you're moving before the block, you can get the player to places where ST 4 would suffice anyway.

I'd definitely go for Block and Tentacles, then various "hurt" skills like Mighty Blow and Claw. A lot of the time, preventing a player from moving will allow you to get one additional block in. All the murder-skills in the world won't help you if there's no-one around to hit, after all.

Also, and perhaps more crucially, it's great on the defense as well.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:35 pm

Meh. Weaker players can tool up on claw, mighty blow and get the neccessary guard assists.

I'd go with break tackle. Not a can opener, but a cage opener.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:50 pm

Martin: BT isn't a bad choice. Still I'd pick tentacles.

Craigtw wrote:
Carnis wrote:No point going for a killer, when you've "wasted" a skillup on str (doesn't help much at all in "killing").
I don't get this one at all - more Strength means more dice to knock your opponents down which means more killing....

The "killing skills"
Block, MB, Piling On, Claw, Tackle, Juggernaut, Frenzy, Jump Up

And to some extent: Multiple Block, Grab, Pro

You only get 5 skillups (6 in theory, but 176 SPP.. come on..). That "list" has 8.

CW starts with no skills, CW with +STR starts with -1 skills. So better get the MB/claw on the other (weaker) players.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:55 pm

I agree with carnis

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:19 pm

I'm with Martin. Block, then Break Tackle, then Tackle.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:47 pm

Depending what you have on the rest of the team, this ST5 CW would make an excellent ball carrier. Say Block, Sure Hands. With 2 Guards and a cage, that's a ST7 sack for your opponent. Sure Hands is to avoid Strip Ball.

As a Nurgle player, I also like Tentacles on a ST5 player.

Hope this helps.

Asariel · Post by **Asariel** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:12 am

Firmly in the tentacles camp myself as well (in fact I have a ST5, Block, Tentacles player currently in my TT league). Still a lot of choices of where to go there as well though. Comes down to killer, mobile lockdown/blitzer or roadblock lockdown/generalist in my mind.

Break Tackle is an option as I often found myself wanting to reposition him without risking that 3+ (even with a RR) not to mention how useful it can be for last ditch cage breaking. Tackle combines well with tentacles naturally, especially when you close down blodgers and can thump them if they fail to get clear, but I'm a bit offput in that if they get away from tents there's often a good chance they'll get clear, tackle or not, so it becomes a bit secondary to a better skill. (He's a lockdown player more than a hitter in my mind, so stopping players getting away with tents is enough, even if not flooring them personally next turn) Guard is always a solid choice, especially on a ST5 piece and I have missed not having it after going tents first, however it does take away another skill if going for an extremely specialised player and every member of your team doesn't need it, can certainly manage without it on one CW. (Problem with all Chaos specialised builds this, you'll often see dedicated killers, ball handlers, sackers etc. lacking guard as well)

Doubles wise I think SS rules over most, but I'm generally not a fan of dodge at higher TVs anyway and this is certainly a player with an eye on the long term. Also agreed that killing can be done by other players, you can nearly always engineer them a 2D block with lots of guard and S4 around, don't really need to S5 for it.

Anyway, for my money:

+1ST, Block, Guard, Tentacles, Stand Firm (SS on doubles)

Tackle or Break Tackle instead of Guard perhaps if you feel you can get away with it and specialise him more (Only thing I don't like about the tackle, break tackle, tents route is you have no SS/SF until 176 so he can just be shoved away). May want to consider Frenzy over Tackle when combined with break tackle, more dice for getting down the carrier (nearly as useful as tackle) as well as allowing him to blitz in to get those Tentacles into awkward positions. Even if taking guard it can be shifted anywhere along the progression depending on how much the rest of the team has every time he skills. Leaving SF that late neuters him somewhat in the medium term but gives you maximum chances to get SS, which is much more useful IMO. May be worth looking at disturbing presence if ever reaching 176 but I think no matter what way you go other choices will be more attractive.

Anyway, those were my conclusions after a long hard think on my own ST5 CW.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:01 am

I wouldn't give this guy Side Step. Dodge will have the same effect: nobody hits him (Tackle/ST5 and Tackle/Dauntless are both pretty rare). But Dodge gives the benefit of added mobility, which Side Step only provides if the player gets blocked (not something to bank on with this guy). Block/Stand Firm isn't a bad progression either: same effect, no doubles.

Fenriswulf · Post by **Fenriswulf** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:12 am

I hadn't thought of using guard on this guy to be honest. I was looking more at making him the "anti-dodge" against agility teams.

Break tackle sounds like a good idea as well, but I think I will go the tentacles route, because being able to anchor down opposing players is too good to pass up. I don't really have many problems with breaking cages, as I usually just bust the player's heads open and then go after the ball carrier. What I do lack is the ability to stop the guys from running off when I try for a block and get pushback or defender stumbles, and can't follow up against agility guys.

So block, tentacles then guard it seems will be a good idea. I just re-read the rules and tackle is not needed because the skills don't work in conjunction with each other, so it's not necessary.

So many options... I love Chaos teams, even if they can cause you grief at the start because you don't have enough skills.