Human Guide

[stick_with_poo_on_the_end]

Strip Ball ≠ worst skill in the game. Rather, Strip Ball = most overrated skill in the game. Too easy to game around, leaves the ball in a TZ even when it works. Once in awhile it comes up big, so it appeals to the inner gambler, but the intermittent reward doesn't justify the lack of a useful skill under other circumstances.

Other than the idea that Human Blitzers are inferior to Orc Blitzers (to me, they're both costed right, though I'll admit that the Orc is a slightly better value*), I'm mostly in agreement with Joemanji's posts earlier on this page.

* Orcs have 0-7 overpriced positionals and 0-4 more at a good deal, plus a choice of mediocre linemen or lame cheapo positional-wannabes. Humans have 0-4 overpriced positionals, 0-5 good-but-overpriced positionals, 0-2 good deal positionals, quality linemen and undercosted re-rolls.

Mediocre linemen!!!! howay!!!

50k armour 9 = the best linemen in the game!!!!

[mattgslater]

MA5. If AG > 2, +1MA > +1AV, in virtually all cases. An Orc lino is a better deal than a Zombie... but he pales by comparison to a Human or Skaven lineman, and isn't remotely on par with a Norse or Amazon lineman.

[Joemanji]

No way.

The job of a lineman is to take hits then dish them out if still standing. So AV is the relevant stat, closely followed by ST. Orcs are great because with MA5 and AG3 they can multitask.

MA is not often relevant because more often than not you will put a lineman somewhere to mark someone else, negating his MA for all intents and purposes (you don't usually need to go a long way to mark someone, they are usually closer than you want them anyway).

[SillySod]

Human linemen are among the best in the game.

Personally I prefer human linemen to orc linemen. Then again I often put quite alot of importance on the ability of AG3 players to reposition favourably. I guess I also put a fair amount of effort into keeping several players free or in a place where they are easily freed, this works best if your linemen can take good advantage of such freedom.

[mattgslater]

Orcs can mark so much more effectively with BOBs and Trolls. Orc linemen are mostly ball-carriers in my experience, and at that task they are vastly inferior to Human linemen. You can take a squad of Hobgobs/Thralls/Humans and improve them pretty much any way you want. But once you tell an Orc lino where to go, that's more or less where he is.

[Grumbledook]

rather have a cage with black orcs around it and lineman marking the killers on the other team than the other way around

[soranos]

First off, txs for the write-up. Great read. I love playing with humans, though I am probably not that good with them. I struggle in particular with strength teams like Orcs and Chaos. If you want to further improve the article you might consider to go more into detail about strategies against bashers.

I don't know about Orc linemen as ball carriers. I mean normally you won't even have more than 2 on the field at the same time, their only duty should be on defense to stand on the line with the troll. On offense you might even play without any linemen at all (in case you have throwers or goblins on your team). So I'm not sure if the comparision human-orc lineman is really a good one, since human linos IMO tend to be a lot more important to the performance of their team. Although it has to be considered that I am amongst the crowd that only has at max 1 catcher on the field.

Human linos are really good for that price. What I really like about them is that any Stat-increase will improve them more than the linos from other teams. A +AG e.g would not even be worth it for most strength based linos since they are too slow to take advantage of it, but on a human team a simple 'elf lineman' with block can do wonders to help diversify the team's strategies.

@mattsglander: not trying to sound like a smart ass, but are you sure about mentioning Norse, Amazon and Skaven linos as the best in the game? I guess it comes down to what you want a lineman to be, if you want him to hold the line than that AV7 even with Block or Dodge is bad news, even for that cheap price-tag. If you want your lineman to be able to become playmakers, than they lack IMO clearly behind elf linemen, who are very expensiv, but can become really stars on their own, due to having the best stat line and AG-access. Hell, a elf lino with 3 skills is a better player, especially on offense, than a lot of positionals on other teams. Personally, I consider Skaven linos to be amongst the worst in the game and the weak-link of their team, sicne it is too tough to keep them alive.

[Joemanji]

Orcs can mark so much more effectively with BOBs and Trolls. Orc linemen are mostly ball-carriers in my experience, and at that task they are vastly inferior to Human linemen.

Huh? No, the point of marking is to trade one of your cheap players for one of his positionals. Ball carrying Orc linemen? Wha? My MBBL Orc team has scored 49 TDs with its Blitzers and 6 with its linemen. If you are going to have a MA5 ball carrier, you'd have it be your Thrower. But MA6 is better so you use Blitzers.

You can take a squad of Hobgobs/Thralls/Humans and improve them pretty much any way you want. But once you tell an Orc lino where to go, that's more or less where he is.

Exactly ... he goes where you want and stays there. And that is the job of a lineman. Whereas a Hobgoblin or Thrall goes to the D&I or KO box.

[mattgslater]

On an Orc team, 6 guys can handle the ball. 5 guys can't. You have to be ready to give the ball to whoever can take it to the house. You don't need your cheap guys to mark positionals: that's what all that ST and S access is for, to give you unmarked players. You do need your mobile guys to threaten to go wherever you need them.

6/55 TDs on linemen? I'd say that's about where I average: the only lineman only sees the pitch as a reserve and in the early season. Mostly because he's so slow, which makes him not very useful, which is my point.

[Carnis]

Serious derailing here.. Human guide, discussing orc players..

I'd still like to hear, which of the orc positionals are overpriced?

Troll: Like ogre, but better -30k cost
Black orc: Like chaos warrior, but 20k cheaper -> loses 1MA&AG for that. FAIR DEAL, as he's a blocker anyway. Don't even try to compare him to a NW (30k / player!!)
Blitzer: Like human blitzer, but more resilient and still has 6 MA, which is enough, and you guessed it 10k cheaper.
The throwers are bad, but that's about it. They're still better than khemrian thro-ras.
Liners: AG3/AV9, 50k need I say more..
Goblin: Like halfling, but gets 1MA, 1AV for 10k.. Granted not really strong, but still better for TTMs and in a serious team, too!

[plasmoid]

Seriously Carnis - the Troll is not better than the ogre. It's significantly worse.
MA4 is a big deal. Very stupid is a really big deal.

[plasmoid]

Hey Joe,
how's that write-up coming?

[Carnis]

Seriously Carnis - the Troll is not better than the ogre. It's significantly worse.
MA4 is a big deal. Very stupid is a really big deal.

Regen and TS are about on par with each other. Factoring in that 30k extra value makes the troll significantly better. If either gets block (i.e. becomes valuable) the regen becomes immensely better than TS.

Why on earth does nobody take an ogre over a troll in FUMBBL though, if the ogre is so much better? Is this some javabowl client issue, or LRB4 issue, or a fumbbl tradition issue in your opinion?

[Rhyoth]

Thanks for this very interresting and exhaustive guide.
I'd like to add some comments here about the positionnals (and to try to get back to the topic by the way) :

BLITZERS :
1) Fend is a very nice alternative for Stand Firm for a couple of Blitzers :
a) it protects them a litttle, which is always good for an expensive player
b) it really helps you to redeploy them wherever they are needed
c) it slows down your opponent progression (note : however, it doesn't make a important impact unless you got at least 3-4 players with this skill ...)

2) Think about Juggernaut for your frenetic blitzers, it becomes priceless when you start facing "Stand Firm Blodgers"

3) Strip Ball can be useful, but it looks like a waste on a Blitzer, give it to a Catcher or a lino instead (who can combine it with Wrestle)

THROWERS :
1) I think you underrate Human passing game a little : they make really decent quick and short pass once you have Accurate ...

2) Whether you choose to run or pass, Sure Feet is a very valuable double for this player.

3) I don't like to "over-specialize" human Throwers (for exemple : the "quaterback" option is not really effective unless you got Strong Arm or +1 AG).
So, since the keywords for human are versatility and adaptation, I prefer to train "multi-tasks" throwers :
_the 1st thrower would be more dedicated to offence, in a mix of your runnner and quaterback options :
first get Accurate, then go for Block, Nerves of Steele, Dump-off and Kick-off Return (perhaps in a different order).

_ the 2nd thrower would be more defensive : first starts with ... Kicker (so linemen could focus on Block/Wrestle for their first skill), followed by Block and Leader .
You can also go for NoS (or even HMP) for ball extraction and/or Accurate if you're worried about your offensive thrower's health (and consider Fend for the #4 or #5 pick, if you go for an all-out Fend strategy)

OGRES : don't forget Grab, the best 3rd skill pick IMHO (unless you have Block, of course)

[SillySod]

Why on earth does nobody take an ogre over a troll in FUMBBL though, if the ogre is so much better? Is this some javabowl client issue, or LRB4 issue, or a fumbbl tradition issue in your opinion?

I can field that one.

FUMBBLers prefer trolls because:

- they prefer regen to thick skull (teambuilding is important to many)
- slow grinding strategies are prevalent, most people dont suffer a difference in performance from the Ma drop and Really Stupid
- trolls are much less likely to get fouled (its percieved to be a waste of time due to regen)
- LRB4 regen happens before apothecary use, hence you are less likely to "need" to use the apothecary... remember that apothecaries are significantly more powerful in LRB4, saving them is useful
- many FUMBBLers use big guys almost exlusively as a giant piece of meat to soak up hits and tie up opposing players
- trolls are cheaper (this is rarely "the" reason though)

However, opinion is split amongst top players. A number of excellent coaches advocate ogres because:

- thick skull helps you stay on the pitch, often this is more important than surviving
- remember that regen happens before apoth use? This can rob you of a chance to keep your player on the pitch at a critical moment because a regenerated player goes straight to reserves while an apothecaried player will remain on the pitch (not even stunned either).
- the movement is useful

Personally I favour minotaurs but that puts me in a tiny minority. I cant actually think of another decent FUMBBLer who agrees with me on this one