Skaven thrower - 5th skill help

[Wylder]

Hi Guys,

He currently has Block, Accurate, Kick, Kick Off Return (pass, surehands). I'm trying to decide on the next skill. Rolled a normal skill btw, no doubles or stats possible.

I play him as a fullback. On retreiving the ball, he immediately throws it to a gutter runner on the line, and I try to cage in the opponents half with a block/sidestep/fend runner holding the ball. The thrower VERY RARELY holds the ball to get hit with it. On defense he tends to loiter back and just try not to get himself killed. However, since he is so far back, and since he has block now, he often gets used for an emergency blitz if my opponents are getting through.

Here is my current thoughts:

Strip Ball - Strangely enough I'm actually considering this one. When making an emergency blitz in the backfield, your goal is ussually to get the ball out of their hands. I can think of worse options than this.

Pass Block - Doesn't seem real useful.

Daunless - Not really.

Dirty Player - I don't want my star thrower getting sent off thanks.

Fend - This is a common fifth skill choice for me. By the fifth skill I want the guy to live for a long time, and fend sure helps with the Frenzy/PilingOn types.

Frenzy - Nah. I want him to be able to not follow up.

Pro - Maybe? Good fifth skill. Mostly he only needs rerolls for picking up and throwing though, and with pass and surehands, pro becomes a LOT less valuable.

Shadowing - Nah. I've already got a pair of shadowing runners.

Tackle - Maybe? Seems similar to, but less good than stripball.

Wrestle - Erm, doesn't really seem ideal. Maybe as a 6th skill after stripball or Tackle?

Leader - I suppose it's a cheap reroll? Definately on the list.

Dump-off - Eh, doesn't seem that great as he rarely holds the ball anyway.

Hail Mary - Um, not high on the list.

Nerves of Steel - I suppose occasionally it would allow me to throw from a better spot. It seems rarely useful though.

Safe Throw - I'd take this if it was LRB6. It's not though. It's 5.



Help? Stripball seems to be my preference atm, and that's a decidedly odd choice for a thrower.

[mattgslater]

Fend or Nerves. Don't underestimate Nerves: it's got so many applications you wouldn't think of until the time comes. Fend is the boring choice, but that's probably a good thing, no? The only problem is it sucks to give this guy a skill he doesn't want to be positioned to use. I'd shy away from Strip Ball, as you don't want to be using this guy much on defense, and when you do you'll mostly want to get the ball with him. Besides, Strip Ball vs. developed team = lame. I'd take Tackle before I took Strip Ball, and I'm not recommending taking Tackle.

[Smeborg]

Fend is the obvious choice from what you say about how this little guy plays.

Leader would be second choice.

[Grumbledook]

I'd take Fend

[stashman]

FEND is good, but not on a player that rarely gets blocked/tackled. He is not carring the ball.

LEADER is really good on him. He plays all the time, kicking the ball in defence and passing the ball in offence. That makes a cheap reroll a very good choice.

SAFE THROW is going to be great and if you still play in the same league, you will have use as soon as LRB6 is into your league.

TACKLE - Only if you miss players with tackle.

[Grumbledook]

Fend is good as it discourages him as a target for piling on players regardless of if he has the ball

[Ullis]

Fend would be almost purely a personal skill for this player if he won't be facing the enemy front line. Fend's only purpose would be to keep the rat alive. The benefit to the team would be small. If he gets blocked and doesn't fall down he'd be without a TZ. If he is blitzed, the blitzer can still move next to him. If he's holding the ball and falls down, the opponent won't use Piling On in the first place since he wants to stay upright to put TZ's on or near the ball. Fend would also help against Frenzy players blocking him, but how often does that happen? If he's not holding the ball and gets targeted by a Frenzied blitzer with Piling On, then great! At least that guys not targeting a Gutter Runner or a Blitzer so you really don't want to discourage that.

Leader or Tackle on the other hand are team skills. Leader helps the team both in offence and defence by offering a cheap reroll. Tackle helps in reducing the choices of the other team and helps in killing his players.

I say never start being nervous about losing a single player in a skaven team. That's the road that leads to much wailing and gnashing of teeth. The coaches who can't handle that play AV9 teams.

Every time a player gains a skill, his cost to the team goes up. That's why the team, not the player, should benefit from the skill.

[Leipziger]

NOS just in case, HMP for the huge out ball/chance to split opponents attack, or Leader (bonus reroll is often useful)

[Smeborg]

Ullis -

I regard Fend as a "team" skill in your terms. It prevents opposing players from following up their blocks, which denies your opponent space and position, increases your control of the board, and frees up your players to move without having to dodge away. As well as countering Piling On (in most circumstances), perhaps more importantly it counters Frenzy (again, in most circumstances). This is important, as it means that a Fend player can stand one square away from the sideline, safe in the knowledge that he cannot be crowd-surfed by a player with Frenzy (provided of course, that the Frenzied player does not have Juggernaut as well).

Like many skills in the game, Fend seems to increase in effectiveness as more players on the team take it.

[Warpstone]

Leader or Tackle depending on how your games tend to go. Leader is handy for a fullback because he'll stay on the pitch for enough turns for you to use the skill. Tackle is brilliant as last line of defence. Too bad he never rolled doubles though. There is a school of thought that advocates dumping positionals if they haven't rolled doubles by their second skill

Completely agree about Safe Throw though. It's the perfect skill for the Skaven passing game: "I think I'll throw a long bomb... oh, okay, I'll just hold on to it out of your sack range then."

[Ullis]

I regard Fend as a "team" skill in your terms. It prevents opposing players from following up their blocks, which denies your opponent space and position, increases your control of the board, and frees up your players to move without having to dodge away. As well as countering Piling On (in most circumstances), perhaps more importantly it counters Frenzy (again, in most circumstances). This is important, as it means that a Fend player can stand one square away from the sideline, safe in the knowledge that he cannot be crowd-surfed by a player with Frenzy (provided of course, that the Frenzied player does not have Juggernaut as well).

Like many skills in the game, Fend seems to increase in effectiveness as more players on the team take it.

I fully agree with this after playing against those annoying linemen of a certain knightly themed team in MBBL. It's just that Fend on this particular player wouldn't offer these positional advantages due to the way he's often played (as described by the op).

[Funksultan]

I'll throw in a strong vote for leader.

It's a 30k savings to your TV, any way you slice it, unless for some odd reason you've already filled yourself with rerolls.

I'm actually shocked, as leader is usually my 1st or 2nd skill on throwers. Hell, I think the access to leader is the only reason I take a thrower most of the time. Otherwise, what can that thrower do that a GR can't do better?

If your already flush with rerolls, I'd probably go fend. He's got a lot of utility, and fend helps keep him alive, and lets him do his job.

[PubBowler]

I'm actually shocked, as leader is usually my 1st or 2nd skill on throwers. Hell, I think the access to leader is the only reason I take a thrower most of the time. Otherwise, what can that thrower do that a GR can't do better?

This was my thought when I looked at this thread.

[mattgslater]

I would give Leader to the other Thrower. This guy has Kickoff Return, and shouldn't see the field on defense. Your Leader should be a guy that you can drop in on either side of the ball.

Edit: just saw that he has both Kick and KOR. I change my vote to Leader. Why the heck would you give two mutually exclusive skills to the same player? You're always risking 20k TV that you don't get to use, as opposed to leaving that 20k on the bench all snuggly and safe. If he goes out, you lose the whole package.