Out of turn Bonehead:

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:25 pm

Do you need to roll Bonehead and Really Stupid if you take an action out of turn, such as intercepting or pass blocking?

If so, are you able to use Pro on the attempt, or can you only use Pro during your own turn?

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:36 pm

I'd be inclined to say no, as I think it means for declaring actions during your own turn. However I'd also say that one that has failed its bonehead roll on your turn couldn't do anything.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:37 pm

Well pro says you can use it once per team turn, so I am stumped ;]

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:48 pm

... And Bonehead says you have to roll it after declaring an action.

My group commissioner has a habit of emailing Andy Hall when we get rules questions, and the email was answered thusly;

1. Can a Big Guy "Pro" his "Bonehead" roll?

AH - I don't see why not.

2. Does a Big Guy Ogre that wishes to intercept a pass have to roll Bonehead before doing so?

AH - Yes.

3. Assuming the answer to #1 was yes, and the answer to #2 was yes, can the Big Guy use "Pro" to reroll his Bonehead roll, so he can attempt the interception.

AH - No.

Now, I know that Andy is not the official arbiter of all rules, so I was hoping to throw this open to some of the rules guys and get a general ruling to hold us until the next review.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:51 pm

I would say that you can only go for the interception if the turn before you didn't fail a bonehead roll with him. You can use pro on the bonehead roll, thats for sure already.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:00 pm

This makes sense, but do you have to make a bonehead roll to attempt the interception? In other words, it's not your turn, but your big guy is taking an action. Does he have to roll his negatrait to even attempt such a thing?

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:05 pm

The problem here is what is an action. The rulebook defines player actions, but then goes on to use the same phrase to sum up everything that a player tries to do! In this case I'd disagree with Andy and say that Bonehead applies when you elect your player action (move, block, blitz, pass or foul). But it could easily be used the other way.

On Pro btw, I'd have thought you could use that during the opponents turn.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:12 pm

I would say that if he passed his last bonehead roll you could attempt the interception without habing to make another one.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:35 pm

You would not have to roll Bonehead on an interception try.

Why, you ask?

When a passer throws the ball to a receiver, the receiver is not taking any kind of action. He is making a catch roll, but it is, under no Blood Bowl definition, an action.

You have to roll Bonehead, Wild Animal, or Really Stupid whenever attempting an action.

Pass Block IS an action. Simply intercepting the ball is not.

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:51 pm

Why is pass block an action and interception not?

The current definition of action is twofold. It is

(1) A player action, as defined in the rulebook
(2) Anything the player does, in particular in relation to a die roll.

The second one is not defined anywhere, but by the way the rulebook refers to actions has to apply (in particular in relation to re-rolls and big guys).

As I've put, I'd say bone head refers to (1) rather than (2). But that is just my take rather than official; the rulebook is not clear. And by that definition the same would apply to pass block.

Hope that makes sense!

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:54 pm

I would rule that if you passed Bonehad in your last team turn, that lasts until you next team turn.

Of course, if you didn't take an action in your last team turn, I'd make you take it.

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:00 am

hrm.... what is an action? i seem to recall having this discussion when a particular rules lawyer decided you could use a rr on a big guy when trying to catch or pick up the ball, as they are not defined as being "actions". personally, i think the situation has to come down to the specifics in order to reach a good conclusion. if, on your turn (or if you have not had a turn yet, as he cant fail a roll he hasnt made) he passed his roll, he's not standing around trying to remember what's going on. if that is the case, and the ball happens to be traveling right towards him, he most likely would be able to stick his hand out there and try and grab it. but if the roll was failed, he probably wont even notice the ball traveling towards him, and should not be able to try the pick. were there ever a big guy w/ pass block, i think it would most definitely be resonable for him to have to roll his neg-trait before he could use that skill, as he is doing something other than what he did in his turn, and must remember to go and try and get the ball. in any case, i think it would be reasonable for pro to be used, since it could be used to rr the pick attempt. just like if he had catch, he could use that in the opponents turn to acheive the same purpose. before you get overly complicated (this warning may have already come too late...) think about when the neg-trait roll is usually made.

its in your turn, when they try and do something. you dont have to roll to find out if he remembers to take the pitch on a kickoff, you dont have to roll when he assists a block your teammate is making, you dont have to roll when he assists a block your opponent is making. common sense people, common sense.

slackman 42

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:29 am

Actions are very clearly defined in the rulebook. A player can do any of the following in their turn because they are declared as actions:

Move
Block
Blitz
Foul
Pass
Hand Off

The reason an interception try is not an action is because it does not come under any of these categories. The interceptor is neither moving, blocking, blitzing, fouling, passing, or handing off. The interceptor is catching a ball.

The reason Pass Block IS an action is because, as the skill states, a Pass Block is a limited Move action.

Going under the letter of the rule, there is no reason that a Boneheaded player, even if it failed its Bonehead roll, can catch a ball. When going Boneheaded, all a player does is lose its tacklezone. Nowhere in the description of catching the ball does it state anything regarding a player's tacklezone.

That's the rules lawyer in me talking, and I can understand if you, as coaches or commishes, don't like the above. I'm not a huge fan of players who are suffering from Bonhead catching the ball, nor am I of their ability to still lend assists. The letter of the rule is very clear on each of these steps.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:02 am

Skummy wrote:... And Bonehead says you have to roll it after declaring an action.

My group commissioner has a habit of emailing Andy Hall when we get rules questions, and the email was answered thusly;

1. Can a Big Guy "Pro" his "Bonehead" roll?

AH - I don't see why not.

2. Does a Big Guy Ogre that wishes to intercept a pass have to roll Bonehead before doing so?

AH - Yes.

3. Assuming the answer to #1 was yes, and the answer to #2 was yes, can the Big Guy use "Pro" to reroll his Bonehead roll, so he can attempt the interception.

AH - No.

Now, I know that Andy is not the official arbiter of all rules, so I was hoping to throw this open to some of the rules guys and get a general ruling to hold us until the next review.

Personally, i would have answered yes, yes and yes.

Turning your player over when he's stunned isn't an action, but you still need to roll for bonehead first.

Pro can be used in the opponent's turn according to the rules.

Byanose andahalf · Post by **Byanose andahalf** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:07 am

Turning your player over when he's stunned isn't an action, but you still need to roll for bonehead first.

On a bit of a tangent from the topic, is this correct? Why does a bonehead player have to roll for this? He doesn't decide to become 'unstunned', and the player isn't physicaly turning over, that's just for the coaches benefit. Surely it's just a matter of time?