Need advice on running dwarf cage

[KnuckleGutKiller]

ok i see what a Diamond set up is but what is a Castle look like? When is this best used? and verse what type of teams?

[Mestari]

Its not about 1 big mass of Dwarfs, but Islands of Dwarfs that are holding up equal numbers (or greater) numbers of opposing players.

You dont have much MA or AG so you should be spread out for flexibility.

Dwarf teams are what I call a "heavily committing team". Mistakes you do in positioning on turn 1 cost you still on turn 4. Because of the low MA and AG. Due to the nature of the players, I prefer that on defence the dwarves should be careful not to commit themselves in a way to allow the opponent to lap around and outrun you. However, on offence the risks of overcommitment are far less severe as you control the ball. One big mass of dwarves can be used, and although it limits your options somewhat, it makes turning over the ball nearly impossible for the other team. A more spread out offence allows for more flexible play, but unavoidably makes the overall odds of your opponent getting the ball better. A compromise between these two is usually the preferred solution: dwarves should operate on offence in a formation that is so massive that the ball-carrier is safe but enough spread out to allow mobility and movement for the formation and some uncertainty to the opponent about how you are going to advance.

[Thadrin]

With Dwarfs try not to think so much of a cage, more like a wedge. You bust a hole in the oppositions line with longbeards. You can then advance it with the longbeards who were assisting THOSE blocks. SLayers can go through the gap to clear the way a bit. Secure with Blitzers. If at all possible try and roll your wall around so that your opponent always has a gang of dwarfs between him and the ball carrier. The key here is PATIENCE. You can't rush a dwarf attack without a fair bit of luck (the 2 turn score IS possible!)

The ideas Marcus put froward are about ideal. Its best summarised as this: force your opponent to use his blitz to crack open whatever sort of shield you have erected around your ball carrier. Use the rest of your team to force your opponent to dodge and make blocks that are to your advantage. In general blocks should be followed up.

Personally I find the best thing to do is at set up to present a fairly general, flexible front with plenty of two dice blocks. Rolls these first and then attack whatever spot you have most effectively softened.

DON'T whatever you do just build a gang and expect it to roll down the field. A wily opponent will reduce you to one square per turn of movement and you'll go nowhere.

[KnuckleGutKiller]

still confused on what a castle looks like

[Mestari]

I don't know that either, but that's hardly the point. Learn the points that Marcus presented by heart, follow them when you attack, and you have stronghold. No point in refraining yourself into a certain shape. Always use the shape that fulfills the points presented.

[DoubleSkulls]

still confused on what a castle looks like

Code: Select all

_____
_X_X_
__B__
_X_X_
_____

X= normal player
B = ball carrier

[KnuckleGutKiller]

Thanks I thought that was a Diamond not a Castle

[DoubleSkulls]

Thanks I thought that was a Diamond not a Castle

I think it is too.

A "Castle" I do not know. I suspect they are talking about a more involved formation.

[Marcus]

Thinking about "how to run a [cage|castle|diamond|ruck|maul|coffin]" whatever you want to call it is looking at it the wrong way. A lot of rookie players read "form a cage", then have no idea what to do with it when they've got it.

A cage has one pupose and one purpose only - to protect the ball carrier from being blitzed. That's half your battle - if you can't be denied possession then your opponent can't score.

It is, however, only half the battle. You need to be thinking about where your players are going to be 1 and 2 turns ahead and how you're going to block, blitz and move to get there.

Setups like the classic 5 of diamonds cage are quick mental reminders of the kind of formation you need to be looking at to ensure adequate protection for your ballcarrier. It should be something you want the end of your move to look like, not the beginning.

So long as you're sure your opponent can't get a blitz on your ballcarrier you can put the ballcarrier wherever you like, but wily opponents will usually figure out a combination of blocks and moves that mean they can free someone up for a blitz. Surrounding the ballcarrier in that fashion makes it extremely difficult for your opponent to do that.

The less you think about creating set plays and the more you think about what you're actually trying to achieve in a given turn the better you'll do. Bloodbowl is a game that can all go Pete Tong in an instant. Set plays fail at least half the time. The best thing you can do is think about what your opponent will do (or will be forced to do) in their turn, the rest will fall into place.

[Redfang]

Grotemuis once pulled this one against my diamond, the turn after it stalled:

X X B X
X O X L
B X C X
X L X L

He blitzed one of my corners gone with the Ogre (O) and followed up, next he put Black Orcs (B) to prevent my assists moving in, C = ball carrier, L = longbeard. More orcs prevented moving away sideways...

Killed my cage that way.

R

[grotemuis]

don't forget there was one blitzer at the back, and one lineorc behind one of the black orcs, this to stop any assists against him.

The think there was that you had a lot of players in the cage, otherwise I couldn't have committed so much players to breaking your cage (does not show in diagram). After this you failed your hand-off, so there was some luck involved.

g

[Mestari]

Everyone read what Marcus wrote above, put it into your heart and study it there. Do not restrict yourself with set formations. Keep your mission clearly in your mind. Your mission is to score slowly and crush the opposition. You must retain the ball and keep the ballhandler safe. Specifics of formation must be made to adapt the situation.

[Heiper]

The worst you can meet (IMO) is those leaping Wardancers, they get about everywhere, hate them with passion when you play slow teams. The very very worst you can meet would be ST upgrade Wardancers they are just awfull. So be extra carefull when you see players with Leap, as it is probably the best cagebreaking skill in this game, and remeber to have Guard players around your ballhandler, it does reduce the power of those leaping ppl alot.

Otherwise, from what I've played Dwarfs now (not that much tbh) Marcus put it brilliantly up there, the Dwarf thinking.

(If you can, try to play some other races once in a while, great way to find your own weakness in your play. To see from the enemys eye is always nice )