Ideas for buffing the vampire team - round 3: Poll

[plasmoid]

Hmm..
Perhaps this should just be Thick Skull thralls.
Vamps have already recieved a significant boost in LRB5+

And Thick skull doesn't really mesh very will with "biting can only stun". We could go with biting (potentially) creating new vamps, but I'd rather not mess with skill texts if I could help it.

Is Thick Skull thralls enough of a boost?

[Tripleskull]

I would say no. From my expirience with vamps in mbbl they also need significantly better dice...

[Glowworm]

Another "No" from me, I still think Av8 Thralls (human linemen) are the way forward, every other Av7 player on the rosters either start with skills, better Ag and/or Mv and better/more positionals on their team roster.

The only other Av7 with exactly the same stats and skill access for 40K is hobgoblins, and Im sure everyone agrees that thier roster on the whole is pretty sweet...

So still voting for Av8, its not going to make Vamps tier 1 (or even high tier 2) but it would make them much more competative short term.

If Im forced to choose 1 of the above I'll go (with much protest) with T/S

[SillySod]

Vampires dont need a boost in the same way that ogres and some of the others do. So yes, thick skull for free would be absolutely fine as a boost. However...
1) its not a fluffy boost, thralls do not have thick skulls or even proper helmets
2) it doesnt make vampires more playable

The main problems with vampires seem to be that people find them tricky to use and that they are vulnerable to streaks of poor luck. Av 7 thralls will still pop like pringles so the team remains vulnerable to a run of good injury dice. Thick skull doesnt make the team much easier to play because it only results in slightly more stunned thralls remaining on the pitch... which is mostly useful only if you've positioned them right... which doesnt happen so often if you're not finding vampires easy to play. In contrast av 8 thralls would allow coaches to play a little differently while still keeping a high number of players active on the pitch.

PS, with vampires its probably safe to go for a big boost. Leagues can always tone it down if vampires ever run away with the title.

[Carnis]

I think the 2 main weaknesses:
1) High frequency of thrall turnover from bloodlust
2) High frequency of thrall turnover from bashy teams..

Are not really countered that well with thick skull only. It will help a bit vs blood lust, but not really that much.

1) Can be "fixed" by modifieing blood lust probability or severity. 18% is too harsh, for any one to field 6 vamps. I suggested 1/9, didn't make the poll though.

The other option is nerfing blood lust severity, one would be roll the injury with a -1 modifier (like one of the handicap cards), treating double1's as prone instead.

2) AV increase. Thick skull is only a temporary solution. Casualties will make the difference even moreso than knockouts..

Edit: Missed a "not"

[plasmoid]

Hi guys,
just so we're clear, Thick Skull thralls won the poll, so I won't be switching to AV8 thralls instead.
What I'm pondering is whether to add a runner-up option to the Thick Skull thralls.
Next in line (since the TS option prevents AV8) are the tweaks to bloodlust: Limited to stun or generate vampires. Only problem is that "limit to stun" doesn't mesh well with TS thralls, and "generate vampires" has truly marginal impact.

Be that as it may,
SillySod said:

1) its not a fluffy boost, thralls do not have thick skulls or even proper helmets
2) it doesnt make vampires more playable

I think it's fair to say that Thick Skull isn't actually that your skull is thicker. Otherwize how is it learned? It's a general toughness, and I have no problem imagining that the harsh treatment and constant nibbling from the vamps can harden their thralls.

And in my experience there is no denying that it will help. Real question is whether it would help enough - don't know about that. But the vamp weak point is player depletion due to bash and biting, so every time a player stays on-pitch, you'll have more potential bite victims and be less likely to be outnumbered (and crushed).

Cheers
Martin

[Tripleskull]

I very much like the thick skull buff. I think it fits the team well wtih no chance of taking them over the top. And for fluf I had the same thought as Martin.

For another buff you could consider TS on the vamps aswell. AV 8 is a litle low for vamps imo, since vampieres usually are protected by there power to regenerate as opposed to other spicies who need armour to be protected. Regenerating a casualty is one thing, but regenerate also helps on small wounds. TS could model the general toughness of Vamps or AV 9, but I like TS better, since its relatively week.

[Kamalh]

Sorry for taking this tread out of the ground but may i had a idea:
Make BloodLust Stunning on 2-9 and BH on 10-12.

More Thrall on the field is what we want all, nop ?


Anyway i voted for the +1MA (making vampire super star player ^^ ) but the AV8 for Thrall can be good, making Vampire more competitiv !

[IONDragonX]

I'd always wanted the Vampire Team to look like this:

Vampiric (Nega Trait)
When this player is set up before the kick-off, he makes an injury roll upon one of his own thralls to 'juice up' for the drive. Choose one of your thralls and make an injury roll against him. If the thrall is Knocked Out or worse, you may replace him with a different Thall (if you have one). If there are no Thralls left, he'll re-injure one that's already been injured.
- This get all the injuries out of the way up front.

0-1 Vamp Lord 6 5 4 7 Regenerate, Hypnotic Gaze, Vampiric, Loner 200k
- The VLord is older and stronger than the younger Vamps but he's megalomaniacal so he won't wear pads or break into a run. He also doesn't "practice".
0-6 Vampires 7 4 4 8 Regenerate, Hypnotic Gaze, Vampiric 130k
- Vampires have never been slow at moving around.
0-12 Thralls 6 3 3 7 Bonehead 40k
- Thralls have Bonehead due to the overload of fear and awe they hold for their masters. Their lack of blood while exercising doesn't help either.

This list makes the Vampires a foregone conclusion that you only have the Thralls for a short time. Most (if not all) of the Thralls will be KO or worse by the third drive. The Thralls will also die, a lot, so they really can't accumulate many skills.