League Human starting team (TV100)

[Gimli]

Have tried my lineup on the Cyanide game now - twice. Almost tied a rookie Dwarf team, and got bashed by a Lizard team - ended up with 3 players on the pitch at one point. Lost 1-0.

Trouble is, I've tried playing with an Ogre (albeit vs 2 Finesse teams) and that lineup seems to be worse. The Ogre uses up tons of TV - can't have 4 Blitzers - and he boneheads and double skulls (with Loner) at awkard times.

I agree with your thought on approaches to builds. With 4 TRR you can be more aggresive dodging with Blitzers, etc.

I am also thinking of ditching the APO, dropping 2 of the linemen, and replacing them with 2 Catchers. This would give me:

4 Blitzers
2 Throwers
2 Catchers
3 Lineman
4 TRR
10k in the bank.

But playing without an APO vs a bash team seems like a recipe to get your team in the hole off the start. I could get the APO by dropping a TRR, which given the addition of the Catchers dodge and catch skill might make sense. But I've read a number of threads that are highly critical of human Catchers, and suggest using Blitzers as receivers early on. First League game is Thursday night. Interested to hear how you fair vs the Amazons.

[Ullis]

I could get the APO by dropping a TRR, which given the addition of the Catchers dodge and catch skill might make sense. But I've read a number of threads that are highly critical of human Catchers, and suggest using Blitzers as receivers early on. First League game is Thursday night. Interested to hear how you fair vs the Amazons.

Getting SPP's and first skills on the blitzers is critical. That's why using them as receivers makes sense too (in addition to them being reasonably fast). I think that the starting team benefits more from getting skills on anyone, including the linos, but the catchers. Lots of RR's get around the issue of the blitzers being AG3 and no Catch.

Dropping both catchers (or one catcher and one thrower) would also buy you the apo.

[Welshy]

I'd suggest that you're set-up there is possibly a bit of a compromise between the two 'types' of team I mentioned. i.e. You've got enough skills (i.e. Catchers & Throwers) to play a 3RR game and so could be 'waisting' one on a regular basis, removing the Catchers also forces SPP's on the Linemen and Blitzers as Catchers are SPP hogs.

My approach would fall into one of the following:

1. Drop the two catchers for a Lineman and get an additional TRR. - 5RR's on an AG3 side you can play these guys like AV8 Elves and forces Lineman and Blitzers development.
2. Drop catchers and add two linemen - Tougher to score, but forces Lineman and Blitzers development and have a 12th man. It's very simialar to your Apoth idea, so wouldn't see this as an optimal option.
3. Drop a TRR for a Apoth. A standard build with Apoth, quite robust. - Only 11men, all skills and an apoth.
4. Drop TRR for a lineman. - All skills and 12th man.

Out of the above I'd have to choose beetween either; 1. - Pseudo Elf or 4. - Traditional 12man.

*Edit*: To add to the above my personal preference would be the 'Traditional' team. The "pseudo Elf" approach is risky (look back at my current 11man team's plight) and I'm still not 100% convinced, hence my earlier 12man 'restart' roster. Smeborg's team below is probably the most robust competative 12man set-up possible at the sacrifice of 1x Blitzer.

[Smeborg]

The more I play Humies, the more I feel that a resilient and rounded roster is the way to start (regardless of where you want the roster to end up). My favourite starting roster at the moment is:

3 Blitzers
2 Throwers
2 Catchers
5 Linos
3 Re-rolls
Apothecary

The Apoth helps a lot to prevent the damage to which Humies seem prone in their early games (because they cannot easily dodge away from trouble).

[Duce]

How do the 3 Blitzers fare comapred to the full 4? I've never dnoe a team without the full allotment and seem to find its very much needed to keep on par with the enemy team.

The two catchers is also another I don't know as I only take one off the bat due to their low str meaning even more bullying form enemy players, that and their low AV keeps me worried if they bite the dirt.

[Smeborg]

I find 3 Blitzers OK - especially since it will not take you long to get the 4th.

I find taking one Catcher a weak choice - one is easily put in the dugout, leaving you with none. With 2 Catchers on offense at least you have 2 receivers to cause problems for your opponent.

[Gimli]

Smeborg,

I tried your Roster last night on the Cyanide game - got to play Dwarves, which put the roster to the test immediately. Tied 1-1, and could have won 2-1 but for tripping on the goal line at one point. I've been testing various Human rosters this week, and this is the best result I've had.

My TD and my two close call TDs were both "Elf TDs" which I couldn't have pulled off without the Catchers. I've tried Catcher-less rosters, and have read the posts that suggest Catchers are SPP hogs, etc., but the point I'd make is at least you can earn some SPPs with the Catchers! Their ability to pick up the ball and move it a LONG way quickly is necessary if you are going to "finesse" the bash teams.

My only thought for starting in a League is that I might change your lineup slightly and go with only 4 Lineman and buy the extra TRR upfront, i.e. an 11 player, 4 TRR, 1 Apo roster. A bit risky, admitedly, but getting the extra TRR means you are "built" up front.

As a further alternative, I'm toying with dropping one of the TRR and changing one of the Lineman to a Blitzer, as follows:

4 Blitzers
2 Throwers
2 Catchers
3 Lineman
3 TRR
1 Apo
10k in bank

[mattgslater]

Humans can be built with 3 Blitzers just fine, though the fourth one most certainly carries his weight.

In a short format, I like the lineup in Gimli's post right above this, except that I'll take a twelfth man over an Apothecary so I'm not always getting out-Strengthed (also, early lino injuries that mess with your scheme also mess with your development, so keeping enough linos is critical in early games). In a longer format, I'll drop the Catchers for an Ogre, or for two more linos and a 4th TRR (this also takes your 10k bank): either way, this smooths out the SPP progression tremendously. (No matter what you do, get your linos up to 6SPP ASAP!) There's no reason you can't drop one Blitzer and your 10k for an extra player, RR or Apoth.

Having two Throwers really helps distribute the TDs. Having a Catcher really helps distribute the Comps, but this isn't a major concern in the first game, so you can build up to your Catcher and buy him first or second. Multiple Catchers are great, but you really are at your best if you have at least ten ST3+ guys on the roster.

[Welshy]

The on going (mis)fortunes of the Middenheim Municipals: 1-2TD Loss (0-5 CAS) against. 4CAS were in the last four turns!

Generally a positive result even if it doesn’t look like it on paper. With a TV difference of 16 (my 84 verses the 'new' 100) I induced a Thrower with LEADER. This thrower was central to my plans!

Electing to receive in the first half saw me ‘store’ the ball deep and knock holes in the Amazon line and pull them out of shape. A few linewomen made a lunge for the Thrower (more than far enough away, even with GFI’s). This was my cue to clear some space around a Blitzer before creating a shield for the Thrower and chucking it down field. The pass succeeded burning the LEADER re-roll for the catch and the Blitzer zoomed off out of harm’s way down the field. A sack attempt was manufactured but several GFI’s burned the TRR and also resulted in a turn-over before the Blitz could be brought home. 1-0 to MM’s on Turn 4.

The next drive saw the Amazon’s dodging their way down field and putting the ball across the line on T8. By this point it was clear that a man (or woman) marking scheme was not going to work. A lack of TACKLE also saw the Amazon’s survive most of the blocking on their feet.

With this lesson under my belt most of the next half saw me deploy a two-deep screen of players across the width of the pitch until a gap opened up in the ‘cage’. This attack on the ball spilt it only to bounce deeper into a group of Amazons. With only 4turns of the game left a second blitz attempt saw my single remaining Blitzer CAS’d with many more Humans thrown onto the cage to pressure the ball. Only too late it showed that this approach failed and exposed gaps in the line and allowed the girls to exploit it. A series of dramatic blocks saw the CAS count soar from 1 to 5 by the end of the game. A bitter blow was an ‘actual’ lineman killed only to be pronounced dead by the Apoth.

Reflecting on this game leaves me with mainly positives. My T4 score shows that Human’s can still score with Blitzers, even with-out catchers. With an induced mercenary Thrower, therefore 12th man) it is looking like the Municipal’s may just have a glimmer of hope. The 60k winnings from this game allowed me to buy a third Blitzer and my Ogre returns for the next game!

I have now conceeded 17CAS in three games (!?!?!) of which 5 are deaths. My luck must surely change before long!

[Gimli]

It was our League day today. We play a 10 game season, 2 games per month - playoffs at the end of the season. We are organized in two divisions - one for starting TV1000 teams, one for returning teams. There are 20 coaches in the returning Division and 28 in our TV1000 division. I played Dwarves for 4 seasons, so Humans are a big change of pace.

I went with 3 Blitzers, 2 Throwers, 2 Catchers, 4 Lineman, 4 TRR and an APO. My first two games were against a rookie Orc coach and our League Champion playing an Underword team.

Was apprehensive about the Orcs, and he in fact got 2 CAS to my nil, but both were on Linos, and the worst was an MNG. Tied 1-1, but felt I should have won ... I know, we all think that. But earned 80k.

Next game vs Underworld was going well but then a number of critical failed pickups and the like meant a defensive TD, and me down 2-0 at the half. Second half a comedy of errors - finally scored on my Turn 15. Game ended 2-1. Got 3 CAS (to none on me), including a Kill off the first block of the game. So my APO sat on the sideline both games just reading magazines - which should be my worst complaint! (When I started my Dwarves without an APO, I had one killed in the first game with a Rock.)

Can't say I really missed the Ogre, although in my second game I KO'd the Warpstone Troll with a foul, and he missed most of the second half. My game 3 is vs a Chaos team, and Game 4 is Ogres, so the lack of a Big Guy might be more noticeable in those games.

Was able to buy the 4th Blitzer, and got one skill in the second game on one of the Blitzers - took Frenzy, hope to do some surfing with him! 23 SPP over the 2 games.

Am disappointed with a tie and a loss, but am very pleased I now have a solid 12 player roster (4 Blitzer, 2 Thrower, 2 Catcher, 4 Linos) with the "back end", i.e. 4TRR and an APO, "built". Have 30K in the bank, and think I will now save for an Ogre.

In both games I got burned with failed passes early on, and think I might be playing the team too "Elfy". With Dwarves, it was cage up and move the ball, whereas I think I am moving the ball too loosely - had a defensive TD scored on me each game, whereas last season I think I had two all season.

[Ravenal]

Your problems against those two orc teams are undoubtedly due to catcher shortage ...

That's the "edge" you have got to exploit against orcs, the fact that you have dodge and he doesn't have tackle. Just mind you not to let his blitzers get a hold of your catchers too much and he'll be 2d blocking catchers with double skull chance and only 1/6 of getting only your catcher down... all in all the better % for you because of double skull (both down) turnover risk. So, if you tie up his BO with your linemen/catchers and his blitzers with your linemen/blitzers you should have "free" throwers/blitzers to take care of his linemen and score ...

It's tough and requires some sacrifices to Nuffle on catcher AV rolls when he does get that defender down ... but amazingly, it's the catchers that hold an orc player back (until he gets tackle - at which time you have block/wrestle)

it't not a sure fire way of course... but it at least gives you a fighting chance.

[Grumbledook]

I disagree, you can handle orcs with humans with a 4 blitzer, an ogre and no catcher lineup

[Gimli]

Actually, I didn't feel all that disadvantaged playing the Orcs with my original lineup (3 Blitzer, 2 Thrower, 2 Catcher, 4 Linos). The Orcs only had 2 Black Orcs, and the Troll was Really Stupid an appropriate amount - in fact I got him isolated at one point where he needed 4+ to activate, and that took him out of the game for a bit.

Can't really blame the passing failures on the Catchers - it was the Throwers who managed to screw up - several fumbles, even with Pass. Only completion I could manage was a Turn 8 SPP attempt which meant nothing otherwise.

Next game is vs a TV1020 Chaos team, with 3 CWs and a Mino. He'll have 2 journeyman Beastman, so with the Mino there will be lots of Loner to help use up his 2 TRR.

[Ravenal]

I want to come to the catchers assistance here a bit.

having dodge on a starting team can be very valuable... in defense. Just make sure to have them defend against guys that don't have block (or tackle). It makes for a frustrating block against

[mattgslater]

Next game is vs a TV1020 Chaos team, with 3 CWs and a Mino. He'll have 2 journeyman Beastman, so with the Mino there will be lots of Loner to help use up his 2 TRR.

Nice draw, that. Should get you some easy SPP, unless he's a really good coach. That lineup hurts until you get 8-12 games under your belt or do a very good job managing your SPP.