Norse guide: On Rampage

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Carnis
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Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Carnis »

Comments welcome!

The norse are a strange bash team, coming with a full quotient of AG3 players and only three players in the whole lineup get AV above 7. To add insult to injury, the linemen don't get S access, and you don't get the standard 4+1 STR players + big guy either. Yet despite these weaknesses norse are one of the most outstanding teams in the whole Blood Bowl rulebook. What makes the norse so spectacular and fun to play with? Versatility, reliability and frenzy. The norse are strongest against elf/skaven teams, and teams with lower than average AV. AV8 teams the norse can take out pretty regularily, and facing AV9ers the norse have to even the odds with clever positioning, their MA/AG advantage and fouling. Losing the bashgame to win the game is not uncommon, if not optimal.

The team:
You get 0-1 Yhetee, 0-2 Norse Werewolves, 0-2 Berzerkers, 0-2 Runners, 0-2 Throwers and 0-16 Linemen. Let's look at the team as a whole first, and then each position individually.

The norse is one of the teams that is spoilt for choice after the 0 FF required at start change. Your base to build on should comprise of 2 Ulfwereners, 9 linemen and 3RRs. Everything else should be built on that depending on the league structure, lenght or tournament rules.

Team "skeleton":
2 Norse Werewolves (Ulfwereners) 6428 Frenzy, GS 220k
9 Linemen 6337 Block, G 450k
3 RR 180k
150k in the bank. This is what you can "play around with".

In perpetual, your start build is not crucial, but you should attempt to get max amount of MVPs on "useful players" and start the game with a good chance to win. Your upgrades thus available are:
Runner: +1 MA to running game, great addition.
Berzerker: GREAT blitzer, and GS-access.
Thrower: No immediate benefit, but potential.
Yhetee: No obvious immediate benefit, but huge potential.
Apothecary: Saves money.
Linemen: Makes winning the first game more likely, makes fouling viable, but dilutes your "MVP" pool.

There is no absolute "right answer", almost all builds are pretty much equally viable. This is probably a pretty balanced start. For tournaments -> more players is merrier, as then you can freely foul away.

The Team Skeleton + Apoth 50k, Upgrade lineman to Runner 40k, Upgrade lineman to Berzerker 40k, 2 FF or upgrade lineman to Thrower:
2 Nordic Werewolves, 6428 Frenzy, GS 220k
1 Runner 7337 Block, Dauntless, GA 90k
1 Berzerker 6337 Block/Frenzy/JU, GS 90k
7 Linemen 6337 Block, G 350k, or 6+thrower 370k
3RR, Apoth, 2 FF or 20k in the bank - 250k

The Linemen 6337 Block G:
The core of the team. They come with a 10k price reduction, the best general skill block already taken and moderate movement & ag with a low AV value. You should aim at filling your ranks early, to get up to 13+ players when the norse start to be playable. Their weakness is their skill-category, G only without doubles. This together with block already taken means they come with very few improvement options. Many believe the linemen to be perfect at 0 SPP. There are some useful linemen skillups though (in order of usefulness):

+STR (6+6). An additional 4STR player always breaks intended gamebalance. At 90k and already has block, GO FOR IT!
+Guard (doubles). Coupled with fend/tackle makes for a very annoying player.
+AV (6+4). This makes the lineman a human lineman at +10k price (80k for block/6338). Crap you say? Put him on the LOS and order Fend next. Remember, one of the most effective ways to increase your bashiness is to reduce incoming casualties.
+Dirty Player. The first fouler is the most crucial, ideally you get 1 per half. Foul prone players only, never stunned players and never players whose armor you cant reduce below 7. Never foul without DP, or when you're gonna lose your 11th player for the next half doing it.
+AG(6+5). A pro-elf lineman with block at +10k, don't get too attached, but a useful player nonetheless.
+Tackle early (later, your zerks/ulfs will deal with dodge -> consider sacking tackling linemen)

Useful, but not very strong picks:
Kick (can be useful, but not very often), Fend, (becomes powerful later, though) Dauntless, Frenzy, Wrestle, Pro, any non-double 3-skill combo -> consider sacking, sure hands and on doubles: mighty blow/dodge

Apothecary policy: only on guards/+str players and sometimes rarely on +AG players. Rest: leave to die.

The Berzerkers 6337 Block,Frenzy,Jump Up GS:
The heart and soul of the norse blood bowl team. The old norse had four of these, but the new two zerks+two werewolves is a much stronger roster. These guys are very straightforward to advance, and you should be handing out all your touchdowns to these guys early on. The Block/Frenzy/Jump Up yells for mighty blow+piling on. Blitz every turn, and reroll every armor, stun and some KO's too if you're in a secure position to maim the opponents players to oblivion. After all, if you don't maim him, he will maim you with your puny AV7. The catch is, you also want guard on these guys, since your team only get 5 guard max without doubles. Skillpicks in order of usefulness:

Essential:
+STR(6+6) rare, but golden opportunity.
+Dodge (doubles) sometimes, although rarely in perpetual, you may want to skip an early double for faster MB.
+Mighty Blow
+Piling On (ESSENTIAL, synergy with jump up&MB and protects your blitzer from blitzes)
+Guard/Tackle
+Tackle/Guard
+Stand Firm

Less useful:
+MA/AV/AG (6+4/5) these are probably equal with stand firm, but you generally need the first 3 (Guard/MB/PO) -> so with a stat inc that's 51 SPP!. Luckily, early MB/PO really racks up CAS, so advancing beyond 75+ SPPs should be no problemo.

Apothecary policy: Prioritize, even if no double/stat etc.

The Norse Werewolves (Ulfwereners) 6428 Frenzy GS:
The big brothers to the Berzerkers. +1 STR +1 AV -1 AG and lose Block/Jump up. Fair deal for 20k. Still, the rookie ulfs seem expensive compared to black orcs. The ulfs are not black orcs though. Frenzy as a starting skill means they are the only ST4 player to start with a block improving skill with no drawback from loner/wildanimal or so on. The norse armor is so frail, that you want to have multiple players roled the same way. This is why the ulfs play a lot like their smaller brothers. Skills in order of usefulness:

Essential:
+STR (6+6) probably still the best skill to take. Go breaktackle if you ever roll this.
+Dodge or Sidestep (doubles), taking these early over damage skills may prove very expensive.
+Block/Mighty Blow. The conservative approach is take block first. I usually pick MB first, but most people will disagree with this.
+Mighty Blow/Block
+Guard/Piling On
+Piling On/Guard. In shorter league formats you may want to pick MB/PO first, this will significantly shorten your time to level.
Less essential, but still useful:
+Tackle/Stand Firm/Wrestle/Break Tackle.
Not very useful:
+MA if it slows taking skills 1-4
+AG (WWs arent ball carriers).

Apothecary policy: After skill1 these guys are irreplaceable, before that you can let wolves die (it's expensive though).

Note that there is no synergy for having Guard+PO on the same player, but the norse must take ALL the guard they can get and I do believe it's most efficient to take PO on all the players with MB as well. Just remember you don't always have to reroll armor or even stuns, take the situation into consideration. Most of the time though, you'll be better of rerolling both (especially, if MB is still unused).

The Runners 7337 Block,Dauntless, GA:
MA7, dauntless. Not the best runners in the game. Expensive too, but well worth having at least one, possibly two. Get one to grab the ball and hand it off to cage centers, players who should usually have S access in a norse team. If you prefer a throwing based game, then having 2 is probably a requirement. Skills in order of usefullness:

+ST (6+6), even at 140k, ST4 is ST4.
+AG (6+5), great, as you have agility access!
+MA (6+4), 8 movement is not to be underestimated, already have block and only need dodge.
+Guard (doubles), combine with dodge/sidestep/fend for supreme (but expensive) annoyance.
+Dodge
+Sure Hands (one player with SH is enough, two is too much)
+Sidestep
+Fend/Diving tackle (not high in the list, cause it's kind of hard to get your MA7 AG3 player positioned safely next to ballcarrier.
+DT/Fend
Later: Catch or Diving Catch possibly.

Apothecary policy: Don't get attached, unless you got something golden (like guard/+STR etc).

These guys are expensive, and may divert you from what you should be doing (scoring Tds with zerks/werewolves). Used correctly, they can make it easier for you to score with your S-access players though, as well as improve your defence. They also provide "free" dauntless. Finally, they are the only guys to go to for norse 1-turn touchdowns. It's hard, but has been done. Sometimes impossible though, as your opponent may have Stand firm/Sidestep on the line and it's just not worth it to spend lineman doubles on grab/jugger to counter that.

Throwers 6337 Block, Pass, GP:
In my opinion, these guys are not really that useful. Overpriced for their skillset (as human thrower -1 armor, swap the useful sure hands for sometimes "less essential" block). Can take one for leader, but the norse team isn't a very rr-heavy team so this is not strictly necessary. Often a MA7 handoff is easier to achieve, than a safe quickpass with these guys. Alternatively can carry the ball. They don't make it easier for linemen to advance. Still, 20k is not a heavy price for P access if you happen to roll +stats.

Great skills:
+ST(6+6) becomes a blocker.
+AG(6+5) becomes a real thrower, if you get this then keep the thrower.
Dodge or Guard (doubles)
Leader
Less essential skills for throwers:
Surehands/Leader/Fend/Accurate/MA and doubles: Strong arm.

Apothecary policy: Don't get attached :P. +AG is worth saving.

If you like throwers/passing though, or happen to roll +AG:
The thrower gives you another option in attack! +AG makes a norse thrower great (pro elf thrower with block for +20k, again don't get attached). Even without that AG, building a thrower over time with Accurate, Kick Off return, & Sure Hands makes him a great ball retriever, and lets you place some receivers (i.e your runners) up close to the line, to make them more of a threat. The benefit of this approach is you have a credible 2-turn threat. It's an improvement for an investment, but not necessary everybody's cup of tea.

Skills:
+AG (6+5)
Dodge or strong arm (doubles)
Accurate
Sure Hands
Kick off return

Later:
Safe throw, Leader or Fend possibly.

The Yhetee (The Snow Troll), S
Last but not least, the weirdest big guy in the game. No thick skull, no regen, AV8, Claws instead of MB. Splendid player despite wild animal. They significantly improve your game vs high AV opponents, but don't forget disturbing presence against passers. Wild animal means they can be seriously outpositioned, and frenzy makes them turnover prone. An essential player #14. WARNING: Taking him early can make your play very unreliable. Remember also to not rely on these guys to win you the game, rather use them as a tool giving you access to killing AV9 players and big guys on the LOS or tying 2+ Linemen.

Great skills:
(Doubles, even 6+6) Block
Mighty blow (synergy with frenzy & claws)
Piling on (but careful, only reroll stuns when MB ready.. OR reroll everything vs key players). Just remember you will spend approximately 0.5 turns out of the game for every piling on you do with a WA. Still wouldn't skip this, cause you get claws/frenzy & MB on the same monster.
Juggernaut (if not block by 3rd skill). If you got block then you can skip jugs.
Guard/Stand Firm
Stand Firm/Guard.
Less essential, but still useful sometimes:
Pro or Tackle doubles. The non-double skills that are left are pretty crappy (Thick skull, Multiple Block, Strong Arm).

Apothecary policy: Keep your troll alive, he's one of your "power-5".

For the Yhetees who double before skill #2/#3 (and become awesome):
This can be achieved by sheer luck (11/36 per 2 skillups, 91/216 per 3 skillups), or by cycling yhetees in perpetual. This monster becomes an actual KEY player, instead of a "useful tool".

Build:
Block (first double)
Mighty Blow (skill 1 or 2)

The first 2 are nobrainers. You got claw, you need MB, you got doubles, you must take block to negate loner & frenzy. Then there's actually a choice involved. More often than not you will want Guard/SF on this player due to his ability to get into the thick of it with block & frenzy. The order is up to your personal preference.

Guard/Stand Firm
Multiple block (negates frenzy and piling on for 2x MB/claw blocks, purely awesome sometimes though, vs AV8+ teams! - Can often be countered by opponents positioning!).
Alternative to Multiple block: Piling on (GREAT with block/frenzy, but bad with WA, Guard and doesnt work at all with multipleblock - as you cant take GRAB)

Less essential, but still useful sometimes:
Tackle or pro doubles. The non-double skills that are left are pretty crappy (Juggernaut as you already have block, Thick skull, Strong Arm).

General play strategy:
In defence, sacrifice 3 linemen on the LOS, and play a fullziggurat with the rest of the team. Protect your best killers by putting them on the inside wing out of blitz range on turn 1.

Always pick your best blitzer (JU/MB/PO/Tackle/Frenzy/Str and position must be considered) & target his weakest player (blodge, wrodge, armor, fend, niggles/-AV and position must be considered). Always reroll everything but KO++. Rinse & repeat. When his players recover from stuns, cover them with TZs and foul. Take 1die blocks at the end of turn, and sometimes spare a reroll for such ventures. These can be golden in saving your AV7 from extinction. Against stronger opposition, try to sacrifice linemen for positional advantage and run the Touchdowns conservatively/using positional advantage from your general MA6. Foul extensively, but not if you are already players down. Fouling is an art best used to maintain advantage, or to "lighten" the field of play by reducing players from both sides. This is almost universally your advantage, as you are unlikely to make many dodges & it also makes it easier for you to put the hurt in with MB/PO spamming.

Of your spammed skills guard and PO do not have any synergy on the same player, but having several in the team is crucial, and norse can't be picky about placement of S-skills. Try to avoid contact early in the game, but after the first 2-3 KO/CAS, go full contact to kill the opposing teams running game. Look meticulously for crowdpush opportunities. I have even crowdpushed a zombie on turn 1 starting from LOS blocking with frenzy. Always prefer a crowdpush over a MB blitz, unless you have a significant field-advantage, in which case MB/PO becomes more efficient at causing permanents (CAS & SPP, instead of no SPP and out of the field stunned).

Do not pass, unless you absolutely must. Don't be afraid to dodge out of TZs, but don't waste rerolls on it, and only do it in "safe" situations. Respect foul appearance and AV9-players. Score with S-access players. If you simply cannot cause enough KO/CAS to make a dent (and this will happen sometimes, even with 4 MB/PO), play like a human team (use guard & your AG3/MA6 & crowdpushes) - after all, you are almost "average" at everything. Chances are you won't win, but you could easily draw. In the "won" games, hand the ball off to an ulfwerener. They are hard to skill by chance, and they are likely to hang around the longest.

Remember, most of your players at AV7 are expendable (the non-S access players, and the ones who did not roll +STR/guard/AG). Never use your apothecary lightly.

Ideally you should go for something like this:

Troll: Block/MB/Piling on/Guard
Ulf1: Block/MB/Piling on
Ulf2: Block/MB/Guard
Zerk1: MB/Piling on/Guard
Zerk2: Guard/Dodge/MB
Runner1: Sure Hands/Dodge/Sidestep
Runner2, optional: Dodge/Sidestep/Diving Tackle
Thrower, optional: Sure Hands, Strong Arm, Accurate, Kick-off-return
Thrower2, optional but different: Leader
Lineman1: Dirty Player
Lineman2: Dirty Player
Lineman3: Guard
Rest of the Linemen: Grey mass of 0-1 skill players up to 15-16 in a bashy league. These players are there to tank and take hits and substitute for your DPs.

Inducement preference:
Boomer & Helmut: Are good on paper, I rarely get mileage out of Helmut. Boomer rocks though, as he's a 60k dwarf lineman who sometimes throws bombs too.
Zara: Against some opponents strong pick, not as good as chaney who is cheaper though.
CHANEY: the #1 star & your third ulf. Claws/Frenzy/Wrestle/S4/Ma8/Catch/Regen. Awesome.
Icepelt: Don't pick, useless as he lost MB.
Morg: Too expensive.

Bribes: Best against flair, usually no point in having more than one though.
Babes: Best against bash
Wiz: Against some teams, a gamewinner.
Apoth: Best in perpetual (but not for winning!), you play AV7.
Cook: Too expensive.
Cards: Too random, but if you must then the 50k Dirty trick deck and the 200k deck are my favourites.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by mattgslater »

I like using Ulfs as cage-fronts when they're close to advancing, so if I get control I can hand off to them to engineer improvements: 75% isn't too hot, but it's a small price to pay for a skill. Block/Stand Firm is just awesome on an Ulf, though I agree that Stand Firm is a #3 after Mighty Blow in a perpetual format. In a fixed-schedule season or some other short format, then I'd take Stand Firm over MB as a #2 skill on Ulfs, and on one Blitzer (the other one gets MB as #1).

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Smeborg »

Carnis - I bow to your experience, but I am just a little surprised that you do not rate the Runners more highly. I find them quite threatening when playing against Norse, and on the few occasions that I have played with Norse, I find them handy too. AG skill access, superior speed and Dauntless make them rather good at holding the ball and running with it, in my (limited) experience. They are good players in a tournament side, too.

I do agree with you, however, that the Throwers are rather lame.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Carnis »

The runners are great, but they can be a distraction (and soak up TDs as well!). I always use one for grabbing the ball/ballcarrying. I just think the "main players" are the linemen as well as the S-access guys. Compare:

A Block/Dauntless/Dodge/Sidestep/Fend runner VS MB/Piling on/Guard Berzerker. Both cost the same, 150k.

Also, the 2nd dauntless in the team is hardly that gamebreaking.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by plasmoid »

Great to see a norse playbook being worked out :D
I haven't got one of those on my site.

Somebody help him out please :D

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by sunnyside »

One nit. I don't feel that Norse are a low RR tream. I started out treating them that way. But Ulf eat them like candy until they get a blocking skill, the team lacks sure hands (and other RR skills for that matter), with their fragility Norse can suffer worse on a turnover than hardier teams, and last but definitly not least I find that while a zombie can just keep soaking up blocks the best move with Norse is to make those 1d blocks instead of a hit on the opponents turn.

With a more long term view I feel Norse benifit GREATLY from redistributing the ball to the AG2 "werewolves". Especially in a league where you'll be playing other teams with similar numbers of games or similar TV.

On that note, re-rolls can't die, while the rest of the team can and will.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by GreedySmurf »

Pretty good write up. Have to say I disagree in a few areas though.

#1 of which is the Berserkers. Maybe I've been tainted by the fact that the universe hates my Zerkers. In my current 87 game Norse team, I have had 8 Zerkers die or suffer retirement injuries. I think the problem is you're taking this AV7 piece and getting him right in the thick of all the action. So I'm hesitant to get them to try and take up the TD's as well. They get plenty of SPP's from casualties. I do agree with your build on these guys MB & Piling On. Although personally I take Guard prior to PO. I'm in a bash heavy league so need all the guard I can get.

Thrower - bit harsh I think. I'm a fan if having a thrower. It gives you another option in attack. I'm lucky in my team that I have a +AG thrower which makes him a genuine thrower who can easily make long Passes. Even without that AG, building a thrower over time with Accurate, Kick Off return, & Sure Hands makes him a great ball retriever, and lets you place some receivers (i.e your runners) up close to the line, to make them more of a threat.

Runners - I like them, always having two where possible. I have one that has been with the team since the start, he has 280 SPP's. He's my go to guy. I actually like the Norse runners because in only two skills you've got a MV 7, Blodging, Side Stepper carrying the ball, which makes him a real pain to bring down. and they are great in defence as a safety if you give them Diving Tackle, especially if they are skilled up like above first. I would also look at Catch, one less team RR to burn, and Sure Hands.

Troll - agree mainly, personally I hate PO on a Wild Animal piece. 2nd skill (without a double) is always Guard, and I need him on his feet to use Guard. I think you underestimate MultiBlock on a Troll as well, Especially if you've gotten a double and have the reliability of Block. You should be able to easily manuever for two blocks both with Claw and MB! Can be pretty impressive.

All in all a good playbook mate. Not trying to shoot you down. Just a slightily different play style in some cases I suppose.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Carnis »

GreedySmurf wrote:Pretty good write up. Have to say I disagree in a few areas though.

#1 of which is the Berserkers. Maybe I've been tainted by the fact that the universe hates my Zerkers. In my current 87 game Norse team, I have had 8 Zerkers die or suffer retirement injuries. I think the problem is you're taking this AV7 piece and getting him right in the thick of all the action. So I'm hesitant to get them to try and take up the TD's as well. They get plenty of SPP's from casualties. I do agree with your build on these guys MB & Piling On. Although personally I take Guard prior to PO. I'm in a bash heavy league so need all the guard I can get.

Thrower - bit harsh I think. I'm a fan if having a thrower. It gives you another option in attack. I'm lucky in my team that I have a +AG thrower which makes him a genuine thrower who can easily make long Passes. Even without that AG, building a thrower over time with Accurate, Kick Off return, & Sure Hands makes him a great ball retriever, and lets you place some receivers (i.e your runners) up close to the line, to make them more of a threat.

Runners - I like them, always having two where possible. I have one that has been with the team since the start, he has 280 SPP's. He's my go to guy. I actually like the Norse runners because in only two skills you've got a MV 7, Blodging, Side Stepper carrying the ball, which makes him a real pain to bring down. and they are great in defence as a safety if you give them Diving Tackle, especially if they are skilled up like above first. I would also look at Catch, one less team RR to burn, and Sure Hands.

Troll - agree mainly, personally I hate PO on a Wild Animal piece. 2nd skill (without a double) is always Guard, and I need him on his feet to use Guard. I think you underestimate MultiBlock on a Troll as well, Especially if you've gotten a double and have the reliability of Block. You should be able to easily manuever for two blocks both with Claw and MB! Can be pretty impressive.

All in all a good playbook mate. Not trying to shoot you down. Just a slightily different play style in some cases I suppose.
I think the guide still needs some adding up, so I'll edit the op. It doesnt take into account inducements, starting strategy/team builds.

I'll try to integrate most of what you said though:

#1 A LOT of coaches always take Guard over PO. I firmly believe in MB/PO zerkers over MB/Guard (perpetual). Taking down a AV9er is 31% with MB/PO, it's worth trying. In my current team I got one with dodge/guard/MB and one with MB/PO/Guard/Tackle, and the latter is really "the star" of last 3 seasons. I've had my zerker end up in the thick of it a hundred times & get saved by going prone piling on AND taking out the other guy (sometimes its a shame you roll CAS without using PO, and have to stay up next to his killer with your 70+ SPP frail AV7 berzerker.. But that's why the apoth is on duty for these guys). On top of that, he gets a free block next turn (2+ jump up). In general I don't think our statements are in disagreement here though. Sometimes you have to protect your PO guys from fouling, but it's an occupational hazard of taking piling on ;). Opponent fouling without bribes usually helps your team though.

#2 Your thrower is a +AG thrower, I agree (even in my initial post!), that will be extremely useful. I would not rely on 3+ rolling personally (AG3), but I'll put it up as an alternative. I had some "great" throwers in my team as well (surehands, accurate, leader & leader/sure hands). They picked the ball up good, and at least twice saved my game from a prehensile tail dodge.. Still I feel my game has mainly improved for not having them (more inducements, more even SPP spread etc).

#3 I think our builds are the same, but you value your Blodge/SS/DT runners more and I value my MB/PO/Guard berzerkers more.. I don't really know how to add this into the text other than the changes I just made.

#4 Multiblock approach imo relies completely on Block though, and will be very hard to manouver multiple times per game. Still, a worthy notion. I haven't had the pleasure of getting block on trolls. Added. I still love PO on wild animals though. SillySod also swears by PO/minotaurs in tournaments. This piece gets Claws too!

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by voyagers_uk »

I have some thoughts to add alongs the lines of agree Thrower is superflous and Runner is much better than you think...

I will type something up when I have a chance.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Marlow »

A good read and well presented. I do not agree with all of it, but nothing to seriously disagree with.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Akka »

This was really good for me to read. I'm thinking of taking up an agressive Norse-team for our next season and I'm looking for advice on how to play a bashy team. I've played Wood Elves with three +AG (one on a Wardancer) this season and its getting insane :)

I was wondering, and perhaps someone experienced can tell me if I'm not thinking right, if Dump-off would be a good skill for Norse, or any bash-team at all? I want to really take advantage of all the different players in the team and play very agressive with fouling and getting PO-MB. If I could get a Dumper to lure players in and spamming kill-skills next to him, could that be a good way of getting rid of enemy blitzers?

Also, how high would you prioritize crowd-pushing with Norse in a perpetual league?

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Carnis »

Akka wrote: I was wondering, and perhaps someone experienced can tell me if I'm not thinking right, if Dump-off would be a good skill for Norse, or any bash-team at all? I want to really take advantage of all the different players in the team and play very agressive with fouling and getting PO-MB. If I could get a Dumper to lure players in and spamming kill-skills next to him, could that be a good way of getting rid of enemy blitzers?

Also, how high would you prioritize crowd-pushing with Norse in a perpetual league?
Haven't ever seen a good use of dump-off. You want to avoid losing the ball, when you got it. And the best way to do that is have a SH-blodge ballcarrier surrounded by 2 guards, or have a ST4 SH-blodge ballcarrier in a cage.

Crowd-pushing is a very high priority if you aren't men up. I should probably write something about it into the guide. The problem with crowding is, that a professional coach can often avoid it, or make it so that you only get crowds by giving significant positional advantage to his side.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by purdindas »

I like it. Very comprehensive. You ened talk about things that you and me would probably never do (like a passing game). I'm coming round to the Ulfwereners nowadays ;)

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by sunnyside »

Akka wrote:This was really good for me to read. I'm thinking of taking up an agressive Norse-team for our next season and I'm looking for advice on how to play a bashy team. I've played Wood Elves with three +AG (one on a Wardancer) this season and its getting insane :)
I wouldn't really consider Norse "Bashy". At least not the way people mean when they talk about Dwarves or Orcs. Throwing your players into a big ruck is a good way to lose them. His "lose the bashgame to win the game" comment is one of him most on target. Obviously the term is flexible, I just wouldn't want you taking the team and than getting slaughtered because you just dove in against dwarves or something.
I was wondering, and perhaps someone experienced can tell me if I'm not thinking right, if Dump-off would be a good skill for Norse, or any bash-team at all? I want to really take advantage of all the different players in the team and play very agressive with fouling and getting PO-MB. If I could get a Dumper to lure players in and spamming kill-skills next to him, could that be a good way of getting rid of enemy blitzers?
I say no, bigtime no. Your players aren't elves and attempting a dump off will usually simply end in sorrow. Someone could run the odds, but I'm betting in most situations you're more likely to keep position of the ball by just letting your ball carrier take the hit than if they had and used dump off.

Also in there is that one of Norse's advantages is that every player except the Yhette can make a decent ball carrier, and thus you can spread around the SPPs.
Also, how high would you prioritize crowd-pushing with Norse in a perpetual league?
As people say, good coaches will avoid letting you do it. However "avoiding letting you do it" means making a lot of suboptimal moves compared to what they could do if they didn't have to worry about frenzy. Think of having frenzy players in good positions for a crowdpush like having a knight in the middle of a chessboard. It isn't very likely your opponent will simply move a piece where the knight can simply take it, however it limits them greatly and is a huge asset.

Even the fact most starting teams can't use the favorite 3-4-4 defense against you is a good deal.

A bigger problem is when the TVs start rising and your opponents have ever more side step, fend, and stand firm.

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Re: Norse guide: On Rampage

Post by Akka »

Then what do you think of making one Ulf into a crowdpusher, with Juggernaut and Grab?

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