Ogre Tournament Roster - comments please!

[Pipey]

Hoping to play as spare man at Monkeybowl. Ogre experts can you help me?!?

Ogres get 1,140,000 to spend on their team.

Skills are all up front. Ogres get 220,000 to spend as follows:

Tier 1 40,000
Block, guard, dodge, mighty blow, leader etc. (the best skills)

Tier 2 20,000
Stand firm, break tackle, diving tackle, jump up, sure feet, sprint, wrestle etc. (good skills)

Tier 3 10,000
Piling on, kick off return, fend, sneaky git, strong arm etc. (weaker skills)

Doubles cost double. Stat increases cost 20k/40/80k/100k for AV/MA/AG/ST. Max two stat increases per team.

Max two of any particular skill per team i.e. three or more guard is not allowed. One skill/increase per player.


So currently I’m going for:

5 Ogres
9 Snotlings
3 RR
Apothecary

Block Ogre (80k = double/general)
2 x Diving Tackle Ogres (40k each = double/agility)
2 x Break Tackle Ogres (20k each)
1 Sure Feet Snot (20k)
=220k


Specific questions:
*Anyone think it’s worth putting in a 6th ogre and dropping RR / snotlings (could spend 80k on leader for extra RR)?
*Is it better to have 14 plus apo than 16? I think ogres will get hurt from the LOS against some teams so apothecary would be useful.
*Will 2 x diving tackle be worth it? Considered just paying 80k for another block…
*Should I pay out for a stat increase?
*Is sure feet the best way to spend 20k on a snotling?
*I think 2 x break tackle is indispensable (esp. at the price). Agreed?

[mubo]

Never played ogres, so not sure how relevant my opinion is, but I would be all over DP and sneaky git snotlings. For 20k and 10k, I think they're a bargain. Knock them over with MB, then foul with DP at +4.

Strong Arm dramatically improves TTM, good value for a point. I think 2 BT is a given as well.

Unsure about the double DT. That's a lot of skill points. Talk to Joe.

Apo is always useful I think. I could see an argument for dropping it + a snot for a 4th RR though.

[mattwhile]

Like the roster.

How much for a frenzied ogre? I would prefer one to a blocked up one (especially if it's cheaper).

Instead of block I'd go leader.

I wouldn't put diving tackle on players who have to roll to stand up.

Diving tackle en mass is good, but with a limit of two of the same skills, I'd just spend as much as I could on the ogre skills and f#ck the snotlings (so to speak ).

Definately take two break tackle ogres.

[mattwhile]

Leader (80k)
Frenzy (80k?)
2 Break Tackle (40k)
Strong Arm (10k)
Sneaky Git? (10k).

[SillySod]

Basic roster looks perfect.

It might perform a little better with some inducements but I wouldnt muck around trying to get that extra ogre or RR. I would look at stars (Bertha, Dribblesnot), babes (instead of apoth), or perhaps a wizard.

I think that you are paying an awful lot for diving tackle on the ogres. You'd do much better to put that skill on some snotlings and use the 40k for something else. Although snotlings can die I have a horrible feeling that the DT ogres would get marked and become useless. DT ogres probably make the titchy problem even worse because you've got fewer players who exert proper tackle zones.

I agree that break tackle is something of a must have. It was a crucial skill for ogre teams in LRB4. I would seriously consider guard and stand firm ogres.

Block is great but expensive. I doubt that it'll give you as good a return as some of the alternatives because you cant put it on a mobile player and it wont help you out against blodgers. Blodgers are the absolute bane of ogre teams so wrestle or tackle ogres could be a good buy.

+AG, surehands, and catch are all good fun for an ogre but look too pricey. It might be worth considering a +AG snotling (3+ landings are golden) but this looks pricey too and snotlings arent as fast as the goblins used to be. I cant stress how superb AG4 and AG5 used to be for ogres teams though... it would've been game breaking if ogre teams werent so bad.

Sure feet seems like a throw away skill to mop up some spare points (is he a TTM victim?). Piling on is an absolute bargain so it might be a better throw away skill. Sneaky git isnt bad either. A NOS or Safe Throw ogre could be great for chucking snotlings under pressure.

PS, figure out an offensive strategy, figure out a defensive strategy - take skills accordingly Ogres respond much more to a good strategy than min/maxed skills, the skills only really work for them if they fit into a particular strategy.

[Thadrin]

Sure Hands Ogre?
I've heard it's a pretty good idea. Haven't got my Ogres out yet.
The Apo strikes me as a good idea, because you KNOW some sod will be packing Claws.

[Pipey]

Sure Hands and Frenzy would both be 80k skills and so I think too expensive.

I think I agree that 80k for block might be a tad expensive. Leader could be a better all-round option for the team.

I don't see spending points on snotlings as a smart investment as with AV5 they die if you look at them. Sneaky git / dirty player are minimally effective IMO especially as I don't believe spam-fouling is ever effective.

Piling on / Strong arm etc. looks like good value but each ogre can only have one skill and with 220,000 I can give them more useful things. Otherwise I end up having to spend on snots.

I think diving tackle would be effective as most teams have to dodge away from ogres - blocking is rarely an option. However I might've stumbled on a better tier 2 double for ogres in Pro. Great for rerolling 1s - one of the biggest problems. I'll definitely get mileage of two of them I reckon.

An alternative roster:

6 ogres
8 snots
2 RR

Leader ogre 80
2 pro ogres 80
2 break tackle ogres 40
juggernaut ogre 20

???

btw Sodomiser I do have a plan. It's slow, ugly and involves lots of casualties! Why aren't you coming to Monkeybowl anyway?

[Joemanji]

I agree with Silly on maximise specific plays rather than taking general skills. I'd be looking at a Strong Arm Ogre and either a Catch or Sprint Snotling for TTMs. As you say Break Tackle is key. I think 80K for +1 AG is good value ... he has 3+ to dodge and pickup.

[Pipey]

Hmmm... Yes I think it would be handy to have a strongarm/catch combo for TTMs but it's so situation specific. Surely the percentage option is to select skills which help out in general play i.e. moving / blocking etc.

Would you take accurate/catch on a pair of undead ghouls to improve your chances at the passing game? Of course not because block will be effective in a vastly wider range of circumstances.

IMO getting too carried away with gimmicks will surely only come to grief, even with Tier 3 teams. Ogres biggest advantage is the wall of St5 MB meat. Make that more reliable and they could have some success.

[Purplegoo]

I reckon +AG is good value too. Other than that, I'm in agreement with the backing the bash idea. Plan B is plan B for a reason, leave it be.

Am I the only one that poops myself playing teams like Vampires and Ogres more than Amazons and Dwarves? In the hands of a decent coach with decent rolls, it's always 'on'. No win fixtures are bad news.

[Pipey]

Well I should think a lot of teams would crap themselves having to line up against 6 ogres.

Just a matter of waiting for them to self-destruct. If it doesn't happen then you could be in trouble.

[Purplegoo]

Too right! Respect the authoratah of six lots of MB.

[SillySod]

I'm fairly sure I'm coming to the monkeybowl but I still havent figured out transport... better check out the details for that 6+ hour train journey

I'm currently considering becoming the #1 NAF ranked player in the underworld.

I don't see spending points on snotlings as a smart investment as with AV5 they die if you look at them. Sneaky git / dirty player are minimally effective IMO especially as I don't believe spam-fouling is ever effective.

Skilled snotlings will die fast but that doesnt mean they wont be effective. Using the skill effectively for just a few turns can be game changing (e.g sticking the DT snots on a ball carrier when it really needs to move). I'm not a fan of sneaky git but cheap and risk-free spam fouling will compliment all that MB.

Hmmm... Yes I think it would be handy to have a strongarm/catch combo for TTMs but it's so situation specific. Surely the percentage option is to select skills which help out in general play i.e. moving / blocking etc.

Normally yes. However, tier 3 teams are weak because they dont have players that are good at general play. They tend to compensate for this with unusual options that screw with regular play. Ogres come with an awsome TTM game that enables them to score semi-reliably even when their regular game falls apart miserably (which happens often, even with skills). Improving your TTM game is a massive boost because it means you can usually secure a score on offence (vital) and even have a decent shot at a one turn score (which wrecks the standard 2-1 strategy). Improving your bullshit touchdown option gives you more of these touchdowns but it also forces your opponent to alter their gameplan to try and deal with them... something which almost always gives your regular game a better chance of succeding.

I'm not saying that gimmicks are always worth indulging but they can have suprisingly high payoffs.

Likewise block is an incredible skill for an ogre but surehands or +AG might be better for the team - a ST5 stripball immune player running up the pitch with the ball is a suprisingly effective gimmick.

An alternative roster:

6 ogres
8 snots
2 RR

Leader ogre 80
2 pro ogres 80
2 break tackle ogres 40
juggernaut ogre 20

If you go for 6 ogres 2RRs then you're obviously going for a maxed out muscle game with lots of blocking and not so much fancy stuff. I'd probably go for block instead of leader, possibly wrestle instead of pro, and definately switch out juggernaught for piling on and sneaky git.

[Purplegoo]

I'm currently considering becoming the #1 NAF ranked player in the underworld.

/me crumbles under the crushing weight of Silly's ambition.

Will be nice to see you again, hermit.

[WilburS]

Dauntless snotlings, its the only way to go.