Dark elf development

[Smeborg]

My system with DEs is to give the Witches Wrestle, leaving the Linos free to take Block (to match Guard, which they take on doubles).

I also give the Blitzers Guard on doubles. As I run with 14 players (no Assassins), this leaves 10 players able to take Guard.

I do not take stat increases other than ST on the Linos, but I will take +ST, +AG and +MA on the positional players. For the positional players, I will take +1MA on a 6,4 for the Blitzers, on 5,5 and 6,4 for the Witches and Runners. I find my players are very often short of movement by one square (MA7 is slow for a counter-attacking AG4 team), so +1MA is like gold dust for them.

[dines]

An update after two more games. First against Chaos Pact, then Orcs. Both ended 2-0 in my favour and no permanent injuries as none of the teams had any tackle. This had led me safely to the finals.

The three teams is a pretty beaten up skaven team, a really nasty nurgle and either underworld or norse. Next up is most likely the nurgle team. Last time I faced the nurgles it was a draw and I was really happy I did not go into overtime, so I'm a bit worried about that game. My usual tactic against str teams is a long kick and trying to pressure the ballcarrier. If the cage is formed, it is slowed down by dodging one square each turn and hoping for a mistake. The last 5 games have been pretty successful in defence as no TDs have been score against me. The beast however can really cause problems by tying up my guys and in offence its also difficult with all that str and disturbing presence.
Ideas and suggested tactics against nurgle are really appreciated

The current team:

witch wrestle [side step]

blitzer dodge [tackle]
blitzer dodge side step [tackle]
blitzer guard, dodge [side step]
blitzer dodge, strip ball [leap]

runner [pass]

lineman kick guard [dodge]
lineman wrestle [dauntless]
lineman wrestle [tackle]
lineman dodge [side step]
lineman [dodge]
lineman [dodge]

3 rerolls, 1 apo, 70 k gold.

[Smeborg]

In my experience (as a Nurgle coach), the match-up between the 2 teams seems to favour Nurgle (in both leagues and tournaments). But I am not sure this should be so.

I think most DE coaches do not adapt their game sufficiently against Nurgle. Dump-Off is close to useless, as it will be negated by Distrubing Presence, meaning you need a natural 6 to both pass and catch the ball. So give the ball to one of the Blitzers with Dodge instead. Accept that the game will be in slow motion by DE standards, and that you have to run the ball, rather than pass it or hand-off. If players get tied up by the Beast, don't forget to attempt to dodge them away early in your turn, before taking any genuine risks. They will get away soon enough. Feed the Beast (mark him with a Lino) to prevent him from moving easily. Avoid blocking battles and scrums for their own sake, but don't be shy to mark lots of opposing players when the occasion is right. Your Wrestlers will be very handy in this match (to bring down ST players, for example Warriors with Block). On defense you have the perfect choice between standing off (conceding no more than one square per turn) or attacking the ball aggressively. Do your best to ensure the first Nurgle cage is formed deep in your opponent's half. The Nurgle cage is weak - if you mark all 4 corners, it will tend to collapse under its own weight.

Hope that helps.

[dines]

Good points thx. Think I'll have to think up some defensive setups where he can tie the least amount of players up with the beast.

[Smeborg]

dines - the principles of such a defense are simple: form a wide net with 2 spaces between all of your players. Spread the linos on the LoS. This should mean he can only mark a maximum of 2 players with the Beast on the first turn of his offense (two rather than one, because he can always push one of your players to where he wants).

The Beast is a bully, he likes to pick on the weakest: ST2 players, or players without Block. If you force him to mark players with Block or Wrestle, he is not quite so happy.

[dines]

I'm thinking of doing something like this: The main problem with this setup is that my wingers are pretty far back, thus decreasing my ability to pressure him before the cage is formed. I really need some more side step!

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1 blitzer side step blodge
2 blitzer guard blodge
3 blitzer strip ball blodge
4 blitzer blodge
k guard kicker
w witch
x linemen

[Carnis]

I'm thinking of doing something like this: The main problem with this setup is that my wingers are pretty far back, thus decreasing my ability to pressure him before the cage is formed. I really need some more side step!

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1 blitzer side step blodge
2 blitzer guard blodge
3 blitzer strip ball blodge
4 blitzer blodge
k guard kicker
w witch
x linemen

I dont see why you cant bring your 2nd line 2 square closer. Also if there's no frenzy you can freely put your #1 & #3 one square to the side leaving your 2nd nearly line untouchable.

[dines]

Carnis> I did put the second line players two spaces from the sidelines to better protect the witch and kicker. But could do like this instead. It is still hard for him to tie up the witch or the kicker, but my linemen are in a more aggressive position. The beast might tie up two wingers in either side, but the other side should be able to pressure the ball deep in his field.

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1 blitzer side step blodge
2 blitzer guard blodge
3 blitzer strip ball blodge
4 blitzer blodge
k guard kicker
w witch
x linemen[/quote]

[mattgslater]

When you're up against developed teams, you want your wingers and flankers within a square of each other (the famed "trap wedge"). Otherwise, all these formations look okay.

I totally see the reason behind dropping your kicker and witch back deep, keeping the BON from marking them. You need mobility with those guys.

[Carnis]

When you're up against developed teams, you want your wingers and flankers within a square of each other (the famed "trap wedge"). Otherwise, all these formations look okay.

I totally see the reason behind dropping your kicker and witch back deep, keeping the BON from marking them. You need mobility with those guys.

I always put my linemen next to each other, the beast might tag them but I wouldnt change my overall plan just to counter him. He will really stupid one time or then my linemen will block him out.

In dines' setup the witch & the kicker are perfectly accessable for a beast starting on the LOS (2+ roll, 1 block with a push & 1 blitz with a push). That's because the LOS is so spread out it protects none of the squares behind it. The blitzer just needs to push 2 or 4 next to witch or kicker & the beast can tie them down turn1.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the line. But if your Nurgle want to blitz through an elf line, you'll find a way somehow, barring SS games.

Have you thought about defending against Nurgle with an Arrowhead? I mean, if your goal is to keep the BON from blitzing into the backfield and double-marking, the Arrowhead lets you keep your screen and still protect your Witch.

[dines]

Thx for all the good replies. Good point with the separated LOS dudes. if I use one blank and two wrestle guys on the LOS, they should be able to annoy the beast unless he chooses to totally ignore all three. Being able to tie up 2 and the witch then requires some lucky blocks at the los, a blitz on 2 with some other dude followed by movement of the beast to tie them up. Hmm might move the last line one square back or switch 1 and 2.

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1 blitzer side step blodge
2 blitzer guard blodge
3 blitzer strip ball blodge
4 blitzer blodge
k guard kicker
w witch
x linemen

About the arrowhead, there seems to be the same problems as with the above shown. You have to put the witch pretty far back in order to protect her from being tied up. Furthermore can you only protect one player from the blitz rather than two.

[mattgslater]

I only recommended an arrowhead because you seemed dead-set on protecting players. Truth be told, you've got good materials for either a half-zig (#1 on the inverted wing) or a straight-up ziggurat. You're not protecting anybody from the blitz, if it comes from a Pestigor inside the wide zone markers. You're encouraging your opponent to go for strong points, but that defense doesn't protect a single player from a theoretical blitz, though it is 7 move to blitz K or W without dodging, and this may deter him. In fact, it would deter me, because #2 and #4 look like fine blitz targets, all unsupported, and right where I want to put my cage-forwards. I could see myself going for #2, actually, so I could get my BON in behind his starting position and get edge-marks on both the SS'er and the Witch, then square up a Rotter on the Kicker to make it harder to move that Guard around (and keep a Block guy from being one assist away from 1d'ing my Beast on a straight block; you can pull the Witch off, but not the Kicker). I'd probably have to blitz from behind the LOS, but it's not like the target is deep. If your opponent has a Frenzy Pest, that's a good place to use it, as 2 and 4 are on islands and will get no support on the follow-up block, and if he doesn't knock down on either hit, he'll still push his way into a zone on the WE or #1, and then the BON gets guaranteed support!

Why not make better use of the Side Step guy and run an inverted wing with #1? That would let you protect your Kicker from any blitz on the conventional wing and put the Witch wide, in the protected flanker spot behind #1?

[dines]

Hmm good points. Haven't seen that possible triple marking by blitzing #2. Hmm maybe I'll just go for the ziggurat instead.

Well some things have changed in the league, the nurgle are meeting the beaten up skavens in the semifinals (only two gutter runners), so if I win the next game, I'll most likely are going to meet the nurgles in the finals. The other semifinal is me against norse. His ulfvereners doesn't have skills and neither does the troll but he has a well developed ag4 thrower and several blodge guys and a single tackle lineman. I had a pretty unlucky game against him last time, ending in a 1-1 draw.

[mattgslater]

Sounds like a mirror-match of sorts.