Fouling: more risk, more reward

[mattgslater]

There's not enough fouling going on in my league. I think we've reasoned out that it's usually not a good idea to foul players who aren't absolutely essential to an opponent's game plan. As a result, it almost never happens. Worse, it just so happens that most of the new coaches prefer matchup teams, while the veterans tend to prefer all-around types, so most of the fouling is done on the newbies just because that's how the math works out. We came up with a solution, making fouls, stabs and secret weapons worth 1 SPP, but we have a couple coaches complaining about adding SPP categories to the team roster. Someone proposed just including such casualties in the Cas category, but we agreed that if this was to be done, we would want to implement some sort of potential long-term consequence for getting caught. We also have some concerns about the effects of these rules on Dark Elf Assassins, but our only Dark Elf coach has struggled a lot, so we'd be willing to hazard that issue. Besides, rostered Assassins are marginal players on a team with too many positionals. This also boosts Goblin saws, but ask me if I care.

So, three exclusive ideas spring to mind. I'm hoping y'all can help us pick the best one, or show us how all of them are flawed and offer us an alternative. If it matters, we play a semi-structured season with a postseason tournament. Teams can expect to get in about 15-20 games all told.

In addition to this, we have three house-rules we're likely to implement along with it; in the net they amount to about an extra 5k/match Winnings, with another 10k for eternal underdogs, a good reason not to hoard cash (the "bank"), and the ability for a 300k underdog to induce an MVP for 150k. Otherwise, it's LRB6.

1) For each player ejected for fouling, the player's team must add 1d6 x 10,000 gold in "penalty value" to its TV for the next match, unless it pays that much in Treasury during the "make purchases" phase of the post-match sequence. Mercenaries and Star Players are not subject to this rule, but Journeymen are.

2) If a player is ejected for fouling, the victim's coach rolls 1d6. On a 1-3, the fouling player is suspended for one match, as if he were missing it to injury. If the player is a Journeyman, the team may take one less Journeyman for the next match instead.

3) The referee doesn't eject players for fouling. No, instead he carries a big axe, and if he sees a player doing something inappropriate, he takes a swing. If a player rolls doubles on a foul, the referee takes a swat at the player. Unless a bribe is used, the victim's coach rolls 1d6. The referee hits on a 2 or higher; roll for a Casualty straight away. Do not apply Decay or Regenerate.

As a side note, we've also been considering halving the cost of Bribes and making them 4+ rather than 2+, then changing the Goblin bonus from half cost to +2 on the roll, which is a wash. We're a little concerned that offering SPP for fouls will open up Bribe cheese that doesn't currently exist. Anything much more complex than that will start to rankle a few coaches.

[Fat_Emrys]

I can see the "more risk" but must be missing the "more reward" bit (as far as fouling is concerned - unless you're referring to getting 1 SPP for a foul). I'd have thought that any of those three options would lead to even less fouling than you have at the moment.

If so, I don't think 1 SPP is worth risking giving away inducement, having to play a man down in your next match or - worst of all - having to hire a replacement player.

[mattgslater]

Ah, no, I'm talking about standard Cas points (2) for a foul. You'd only be man-down (as opposed to down a man) in the next match with #2 if you fouled with a Journeyman and still need one in the following match. Are they still overmuch given that?

I see how, while the "ref with an axe" might be fun in theory, it could be excessive in practice.

Got an alternative? Or am I ok just making fouling Cas count?

[Darkson]

I'd probably foul less with those penalties, so I don't think it's the correct way to go.
If giving 1SPP for Foul cas hasn't encouraged your league mates, I don't think much will.
I'd just suggest perhaps you lead the way, and foul lots (take a team you don't expect to win the league with, and GFI) - take DP and/or SG on a couple of players, foul positionals mercilessly, and when yor opponents finally start regularly fouling you back, you know your work is done.

[mattgslater]

To make it clear: we haven't gone to the giving 1spp bit, as we have run into objections vis-a-vis the team roster (several people don't want to have to use new rosters). So we're looking into 2spp instead, which would let us just use the Cas category. But that scares some of us, so we're looking for a nerf or a penalty.

If those are too heavy, anyone got an idea for something lighter?

[spubbbba]

To make it clear: we haven't gone to the giving 1spp bit, as we have run into objections vis-a-vis the team roster (several people don't want to have to use new rosters). So we're looking into 2spp instead, which would let us just use the Cas category. But that scares some of us, so we're looking for a nerf or a penalty.

If those are too heavy, anyone got an idea for something lighter?

How about instead of those penalties you bring back the eye? That way heavy foulers still get punished, but 2 tactical fouls a game is less risky.

As an incentive you could bring back +1 just for fouling or give DP the +2 back.

[GalakStarscraper]

Ian and I both were thinking that the +1 bonus to fouling for the fouler himself could be added back to the game without an issue. Since ejections happen on injury rolls ... this would increase the risk of ejection as well (ie more risk and more reward).

In addition ... if you wanted to add the Dirty Casualty worth 1 SPP to your league for a CAS from a foul or secret weapon use or stab ... I think that is an okay house rule.

Galak

[mattgslater]

How about instead of those penalties you bring back the eye? That way heavy foulers still get punished, but 2 tactical fouls a game is less risky.

As an incentive you could bring back +1 just for fouling or give DP the +2 back.

The eye is a good idea. There have been a lot of eyes over the years; a relatively moderate one could be an idea.

The +1 could be part of a balanced package; I definitely think it should be added back into the rules, and if I were just looking to find a better balance on fouling it, I'd do that and be done with it. In fact, with a different group we had the similar rule that you can assist your own foul instead, which is basically the same thing. I don't know that it would solve my problem, but I think that it would be a good official tweak. I see a second bird to kill with the SPP stone, and if I can give the teams that would foul a lot a bit of a development buff, so much the better. Still, good to know Tom and Ian see it my way on that one.

The DP buff is okay... the skill can be a little too weak (like now) or a little too strong (lik the old days). Maybe Goldilocks says replace +1 A or I with +1 A and/or I? I thought about it and rejected it because I figured that making something nobody does better if you spend a skill on it isn't necessarily the answer, when the guys I'm trying to prop up are having development problems.

Alternately, there could be a trigger on option 1 if more than one player is ejected. That would function kind of like an eye, as coaches would get more conservative after the first guy is busted, which tends to happen anyway. This would reduce the amount of farming out there.

1a) For each player ejected for fouling beyond the first, the player's team must add 50,000 gold in "penalty value" to its TV for the next match, unless it pays that much in Treasury during the "make purchases" phase of the post-match sequence. Mercenaries and Star Players are not subject to this rule, but Journeymen are.

As I was writing that, I came up with a better trigger for option 2: this way, you'd only face suspension if you got ejected taking a guy out and earning SPP. Also, check what I did with Journeymen. This way, you don't start man-down, but there's no especial incentive to foul with the JMs.

2a If a player is ejected for fouling and the victim is placed in the Dead and Injured box after any Apothecary or Regeneration attempts, the victim's coach rolls d6. If that roll is a 4 or higher, the fouling player is suspended for one match, as if he were missing it to injury.

Mercenaries and Star Players are not affected by this rule. (Yet another example of blatant league favoritism: "look at me, I'm Hack Enslash, so I can do what I want!") By contrast, if a Journeyman is ejected for any reason, he is barred from further participation in the League and may not be hired after the match. He is still eligible to earn the team MVP.

[SillySod]

Make the DP skill +2 on either armour or injury. Bring back the eye at the same time so you are sent off on aything except a doubles if the ref is watching you. Sneaky git might need to be reworded to make it fit.

This will massively increase both the risk and reward of fouling. It also makes both sneaky git and dirty player much ore attractive as skills. Notice that fouling not only brings the risk of sending off but also the risk that your opponent will foul you back.

[mattgslater]

Make the DP skill +2 on either armour or injury. Bring back the eye at the same time so you are sent off on aything except a doubles if the ref is watching you. Sneaky git might need to be reworded to make it fit.

This will massively increase both the risk and reward of fouling. It also makes both sneaky git and dirty player much ore attractive as skills. Notice that fouling not only brings the risk of sending off but also the risk that your opponent will foul you back.

Yeah, we did foul more in those days....