Is the undead team overpowered?

cani · Post by **cani** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:30 pm

In my experience Undead teams are quite formidable for the first 3-4 games.

Their main problem (and what balances them) is that for the most part you only get access to general skill selection. This sucks as it means a lot of teams are able to beat an undead team around rating 150 or higher.

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:11 am

People are misunderstanding me, i am not in favour of a bloodless game, i am in favour of a comparatively even game, and a situation where a chaos team, that is supposed to be one of the hardest hitting teams in teh game, cant get through an entire game against the undead team simply isnt right.
That is all, i have no problem with being beatdown, as someone pointed out, elves are good at it. I do have a problem with unfair teams and i get the impression that the undead team has advantages that other teams dont have access to .

Oxinotl · Post by **Oxinotl** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:17 am

BoB,, you should just foul his mummy out,, take a dirty player and just surround the mummy and get rid of it in the first half.. Avoid the 2nd mummy for the rest of the game if you can. its worth a lineman to get rid of a mummy.
I play undead myself sometimes and thats the way people win against me.

Oxinotl · Post by **Oxinotl** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:19 am

Did you play WEs you said? Get a treeman and start hitting back! =)

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:16 am

i do have a treeman, unfortunately, as earlier stated he was in a forest for the first half, by the time he came in i had about four players left.

It was still a good game though.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:05 pm

I don't think they're overpowered at all. They start strongly, granted, but so do (notably) Dwarves, Norse and zons. Orcs are quite capable of doing a number on them.
Questions of balance often spring out of 'this or that team is dominating our league' and a lot of time it's either because they have a good (or lucky, or both!) coach or that the other players haven't sussed the right strategy. I've heard people complain about Amazons, Dwarves, Lizards, Orcs..etc etc.
I think most leagues you come across (and there's plenty around on the net) and tournament results show that the overall balance is pretty good right now.

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:18 pm

Ah, so supposing I was an orc coach and wanted to beat these nasty undead people...how? I've done it before, but it was years ago. during my recent retraining against ok coaches I tend to draw, as the undead receive, trundle, score, half ends, repeat for orcs second half, 1-1. Need to punish his weak players more I suppose. Plus I've never been very good at battering people, always get distracted by the ball. maybe I'll just stick to chess...

los_locos · Post by **los_locos** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:56 pm

Just Hit and kill every ghoul on the pitch, then it's way more difficult to score for a undead team. While your killing ghouls kick the wights with them then there no chance for scoring.
And kick them when there down foul them<<
_______________
LOCO

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:10 pm

Are you using the 4+ regeneration rule for league play? You can easily overread that part and 2+ is really too good. This would explain some of the trouble you got.

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:03 am

No team that is currently official is overpowered, the undead included.

As Tim points out the regenerate roll is 4+ now-a-days. This leads to about 50% of rols failing (my undead coach keeps track). Additionally the majority who do live are usually the gimp linemen. The wights and mummies go down for good and the ghouls don't get a roll.

Undead position players other then the mummies are decidedly average. Ie no STR skills for blitzers, no apoth for ghouls. The linemen cost 30K for a very good reason, they are pathetic if used as anything other then a road block. They will never score a TD, never throw the ball, never catch the ball, and thus only get SPPs from MVPs and Casualties. This makes them progress very slowly without a STAT advantage to get them Casualities.

BoB said

the one in our league has two ghouls with block and dodge, a st6 mummy and the other mummy has piling on, both mummies have block.
It has only played 5 games so far!!

If this is true it seems the coach has really only used these 4 players to get any SPPs. The rest of his team should be pretty skill-less. As an elf team get some tackle to take out his ghouls and use your exceptional lineELVES to get skills. Create a whole TEAM of skilled players and use them all to overcome the few good position players the undead coach relies upon. Very soon he will need to bring on his poor quality zombies and skelies and you will be able to outskill him.

Good luck, and always remeber to dodge 1 square back from the mummies.

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:43 am

Thanks for all the thoughts ppl, i have one last contention, mummies are the only strength 5 player that can use rerolls other than on a halfling or gobbo team.....fair?

BadMrMojo · Post by **BadMrMojo** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:47 pm

BoB wrote:Thanks for all the thoughts ppl, i have one last contention, mummies are the only strength 5 player that can use rerolls other than on a halfling or gobbo team.....fair?

Actually, 'fling and Gobbo big guys are still big guys and as such can't use re-rolls.
Mummies are the only STR 5 (non-star) players that can use rerolls.

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:50 am

sorry, got confused with the big guy team rules

my earlier point stands firmer then....
only mummys can use rerolls

Hieronymus · Post by **Hieronymus** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:13 am

Sorry BoB, I don´t see the problem.
I have been playing Undead a lot over the last years and I tell you: I have been beaten on the field at least as often as I was victorious.
Yes, the Mummies are intimidating. BUT they are the only real Stars the Undead have! The Ghouls are the scorers but they are not really good: Not very fast, not very agile, poorly armoured, no passing skills. The Wights are the Blitzers but pale in comaparison to other Blitzers: Slow and no access to STR-Skills.

If you are facing Undead with Wood Elves RUN AWAY!!! You are faster, have higher agility and you are higher skilled! (And you are very fragile. Don´t let them get you!)
Put only three expendable player (cheapest with least SPP) on the line of scrimmage and dodge away on the first turn. You don´t have to tackle the Mummies, as they are only able to move three squares!
Play your game, not theirs! Go for a running and passing game and don´t get bogged down in brawls. You can alway dodge away with your AG 4. And get some player with leap!

From my experience, the domination of a league by one Team has nothing to do with unbalanced Races but with one (or both) of the following reasons:
1) You don´t read the rules correctly. The Coaches are constantly overlooking some small, little rule (the 4+ Regenerate is a favourite).
2) The dominating Coad is really, really good. Simple as that. Stop whining and work hard to play better. Sooner or later you *will* find a tactic to breach his style of play.

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:47 am

let me bitch, i enjoy it.
you missed one option, often a league is dominated by one team due to the high SPP and TR on that team.

But thanks for the thought.