Tilean Team?

[ombwiri]

Thinking about creating a finesse team that would fit into the setting I had the idea of a Tilean team. However my thoughts quickly changed to basing the Tileans on a very traditional Italian Football team so it didn't seem right to put it into the finesse thread.

Here is my very first draft. It's very rough but would appreciate your thoughts.

0-16 Linemen 6 3 3 8 50k G
0-2 Libero 7 3 3 8 Tackle, Pass Block 90k GS
0-4 Blockers 6 3 3 8 Wrestle, Sneaky Git 80k GS
0-2 Trequartista 7 3 3 7 Safe Throw, Nerves of Steel 100k GAP
0-2 Scorers 7 3 3 7 Dodge, Fend 70k GA

The one I'm least sure of is Sneaky Git on the Blockers but it does seem to fit theamatically.

[Xadie]

I think it is a little bit too strong. I'm counting 6 Players with strength access (Humans for example have 4+1) on normal rolls and 4 with agility access (all 4 of them have St3)! You can comfortably develop 8 blitzers with 4 starting as blitzers right away and the other follow up in just one levelup. On the other hand I think the team is not unique enough to be fun.

Now my approach tries to keep the spirit of a italian soccer team on the same time beeing also reducing the amount of blitzerlike players and Str Accesse a bit. Also i want to emphasise on the finesse aproach.

So that's what I came up with:

0-16 Linemen 6 3 3 8 50k G (line fodder)
0-1 Libero 7 3 3 7 Sure Hands Wrestle Tackle Accurate Leader 110k GP (the backfield sweeper, quite flexible, but is a big target with AV7 and Leader)
0-2 Blockers 6 3 3 8 Block 80k GS (represents the midfielder both offensive as defensive. It's main role is to cement the blocking formation and providing assists)
0-2 Trequartista 7 3 3 8 Wrestle 90k GA (as link between attack and midfield in italian soccer it translates well into a quick hitting blitzer type with finesse play)
0-2 Scorers 8 2 3 7 Catch, Sure Feet, Dauntless 80k GA (a quite fast striker, very offensive (and risky) setup, can - with a bit of luck - free blitz himself out of most tackle situations just out of the box, coupled with Sure Feet as Speed gainer - way better than the human catcher, without beeing over reliable)

Pehaps not what you originally intended, it's still quite a capable team with a excellent tool box (Libero) and fast explosive catchers (Scorers). The good blend of 2x Str Blitzers and 2x Agi Blitzer rounds out the picture. The team also has some weaknesses that keeps them in line: They don't have anything above St3 and two St2 players. With only access to two standard guard players they can't guard spam that well as before. The Catchers are capable out of the box, perfectly suited to burst out of a defensive screen and outrun the opposition. But they are still prone to turn overs (ST2, AG3) and relativ easy targets (ST2, AV7). They lack a good reliable dedicated thrower and ball carriers also all players have only AG3.
Overall later on having 5 blodging/wrodging players supported by 2 Guard+Mightyblow players and a speed above average makes them a force to be reckoned with.

So what others think of it?

EDIT: some adjustments on Libero, to make them as flexible as I imagine them without handing them over AG4. In the same time I want to encourage the use of them as last line of defense and as a type of player that glues the rest of the team together (therefor a hybrid of blitzer/thrower with Leader made sense)

[Joemanji]

I think you should translate the Italy football metaphor less literally. Boil it down, and essentially they are team with a defensive attitude who rely on one or two flair players to score. You also have to factor in that in WFB Tileans are famous for mercenaries and crazy devices. These easily translate into Chaos Pact-style "renegades" and/or secret weapons.

So you have a lot of scope there to build a team around. I'll throw all these ideas together into the roster below. There are probably too many for a sensible roster, but anyway:

0-12 Linemen _ 50K _ 5338 _ Tackle {G}
0-4 Blockers _ 70K _ 5329 _ Guard, Wrestle {GS}
0-2 Blitzers _ 80K _ 7338 _ Block {GA}
0-1 Dwarf Mercenary _ 70K _ 4329 _ Animosity, Block, Tackle, TS {GS}
0-1 Elf Mercenary _ 60K _ 6347 _ Animosity {GA}
0-1 Ogre _ 140K _ 5529 _ Loner, etc... {S}

50K rerolls

Star Players = Dwarf Bomber, Human Chainsaw, Morg, 3 more.

You can field a team with only 2 linemen, so many reduce the blockers to 0-2.

[Xadie]

Well i sticked with the idea of the first post because i thought it was funny. But you 're right they don't appear very tilean like. On the other hand having yet another team full of "allies" like Chaos Pact and Underworld is as exciting as reading the weather forecast for yesterday.

So they should play more unique. The idea of using secret weapons is intriguing though. Maybe combining them with the mercanries idea? Like something of a Chainsaw Secret Weapon Dwarf with Animosity etc.

[Joemanji]

I like the idea of a secret weapon team. Rostered chainsaw, bomber etc. Tileans have a unit of Assassin types so a Stab guy (or two) would work. A birdman (from the army book) would be awesome too ... maybe 8337 Leap, VLL, Juggernaut, Secret Weapon {GA} for 40K.

[Xadie]

Unfortunately I don't have the old army book of Tileans but got my hands on a fan made army book for inspiration. (they lack the crazy devices you describe though)
Hmmm... so let's home brew something here:

Tileans with Secret Weapons:

0-16 Linemen _ 50K _ 5338 _ Fend {G}
0-4 Blitzers _ 80K _ 7338 _ Block {GS}
0-1 Duellist _ 60K _ 7337 _ Dirty Player, Sneaky Git, Stab, Secret Weapon {GA}
0-1 Ogre Brute _ 120K _ 5729 _ Loner, Bone-head, Ball&Chain, Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, No Hands, Secret Weapon {S}
0-1 Birdman _ 50K _ 8337 _ Leap, Very long legs, Juggernaut, Secret Weapon {GA}
0-1 Dwarf Chainsawer _ 50K _ 5329 _ Animosity, Chainsaw, Block, Tackle, Thick Skull, Secret Weapon {GS}

Some really crazy Secret Weapons. Looks a bit like Goblins going Steroids *g* - pehaps too many secret weapons and taking too much from the Goblins, but a first try.

[Joemanji]

The Duellists should be non-SW positionals like Dark Elf Assassins IMO. I always loved duellists.

0-2 Duellists _ 80K _ 7337 _ Stab, Side Step {GA}

I'd rather have a human chainsaw guy if at all. But a Dwarf should mirror the star chainsaw ...

0-1 Chainsaw _60K _ 5328 _ Chainsaw, Block, Secret Weapon, TS {GS}

Not a fan of the Ogre fanatic Would add a bomber too.

[Xadie]

Stab alone is such a situational skill. For example I never employ those DE Assassins as they really help only against AV7 and below. Sometimes i think "Stab" needs a boost against high AV opponents... but that is a different story. So anyway, they're not worth the money and in all my LRB5 games I saw only once a Assassin on the pitch... But if you keep such players as secret weapon you can beef 'em up and provide them with all sorts of nasty skills to make 'em worthwhile.

What don't you like about the Ogre fanatics? Just imagine them on the field - a sight to behold

[mattgslater]

Stab alone is such a situational skill.

Yes, but Side Step isn't.

[Xadie]

point taken

[plasmoid]

Hi Xadie,
completely different spin: I too have thought about a classic soccer team ported to BB.
A few ideas: 3 positions (no linemen), each 0-6, all equally good/priced.
That way, they coach decides pretty freely from drive to drive whether to field offensively or defensively.
And then a goalie - trying to keep the ball out of the goal.

Perhaps?
0-6 70K Defender 6338 Tackle, Pass
0-6 70K Midfielder 6338 Pass Block, Pass
0-6 70K Striker 8238 Dodge, Pass, Catch
0-1 100K Goalie 6418 Strip Ball (or Frenzy?)

Too crazy?

[mattgslater]

While we're on wrong sports....
Ballplayers
0-12 Basemen 6/3/3/7 Tackle (G) 50k
0-4 Fielders 7/3/3/7 Catch, Diving Catch (GA) 70k
0-2 Pitchers 6/3/3/7 Accurate, Pass, Strong Arm (P) 80k
0-2 Catchers 5/3/3/9 Block, Catch (G) 80k
0-2 Sluggers 6/4/3/7 Mighty Blow, Secret Weapon (G) 40k
TRR: 60k

[Xadie]

0-6 70K Defender 6338 Tackle, Pass
0-6 70K Midfielder 6338 Pass Block, Pass
0-6 70K Striker 8238 Dodge, Pass, Catch
0-1 100K Goalie 6418 Strip Ball (or Frenzy?)

well a bit pass heavy, no? Would never be competative against tier1 teams as the positions are pretty weak with their skill combinations. For passing as a consistent game plan they lack AG4, somehow also the player positions aren't different enough for my taste.

Though sticking to your Idea I would introduce another Position: the Flanker

0-6 70K Defender 5329 Tackle, Block S-GAP (our slow hold the line player for the blocking game, Skillwise not flexible though)
0-6 70K Midfielder 6338 Wrestle GA-SP (Flexible Player that can be annoying on the offense for cage breaking and in defense supports those blockers, can carry the ball from time to time)
0-6 70K Flanker 7338 Sidestep, Accurate AP-GS (Runner type, not good in blocking, but supports a passing game, heavy use of dump-off can be a viable game plan)
0-6 70K Striker 8237 Sure Feet, Dauntless, Catch GA-SP (Aggressive breakthrough player, bad in heavy block fights)
0-1 100K Goalie 5337 Strip Ball, Wrestle, Sure Hands, Hail Mary Pass GP-AS (Last line of defense and thrower/game maker)

[mattgslater]

The Duellists should be non-SW positionals like Dark Elf Assassins IMO.

I like this idea for the team, and I like the idea of a Duellist on a team, but you're not a Duellist if you have a weapon but the other guy is unarmed! Maybe it should be two separate positions.

Tileans as Human Elves
0-16 Lineman 6/3/3/8 G 50k
0-2 Gunner 6/3/3/8 Accurate, Nerves of Steel GP 70k
0-2 Blocker 5/3/2/9 Wrestle, Dauntless GS 80k
0-2 Runner 7/3/3/7 Dodge, Nerves of Steel GA 90k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Shadowing, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Duellist 7/3/3/8 Block, Side Step GS 100k
TRR 50k

[Xadie]

Some little suggestions:

Those Assassins are even worse than Dark Elf Assassins (and they allready aren't used very often) as they have same price worse Stat-Line.
They are quite expensive, Shadowing doesn't work that well with MV7, and having AV7 as Marker/Staber is bad as often you possible stab victim will remain standing and retiliate next turn.

0-2 Assassins 8/2/3/8 Shadowing, Stab GA 90K => makes him a dangerous marker, esspecially with some extra skills

Why don't we give the Gunner hail mary pass? Hail mary pass fits the idea of "gunning" the ball down field *g*

0-2 Gunner 6/3/3/8 Accurate, Hail Mary Pass GP 70k

I always think combining Westle with Strength Access is not a good thing, as it doesn't work that well with most of the Skills. I'm more for the traditional Block+S or Westle+A combination. Also your concept idea is to make the Tileans as Human Elves - MV5, AG2, AV9 is not very elfish, looks more like Dwarfs

Duellist looks fine, but I immagine a duellist rather gracefull, so GA is pehaps a better call?

Runner looks ok, although exchanging Nerves of Steel with diving catch might be more fitting (especially with a hail mary player in the Cockerel)