Starting Norse, new league, advice sought

[Drool_bucket]

Howdy,

well, my gaming group which is comprised of mostly rookie coaches (limited PC/Xbox experience for some) is kicking off a tabletop league. It will be short (6 games) but the intent is to end with a tournament and then keep rolling along with the same team.

I'm moving onto a new team, the Norse. I've played a lot of Dwfs, WEs and Chaos in my time, so I want to try something different.

I've been reading here all the Norse stuff I could find, I found Carnis' thread very helpful...

I've played a few rookie games and I think I'm gonna run with this starting roster... (forgive the LRB 6 names)

Norse Werewolf
2 Blitzers
2 Catchers
7 Linemen
3 Rerolls
0k banked

I found that having 2 rookie NoWeres really chewed up rerolls and often got themselves in trouble. I almost look at them as baby Big Guys that need watching after until they skill up, so carrying two is questionable right off.

I really enjoy the catchers. The MV 7 is a nice treat, and I don't see them as scoring threats as much as I see them as my safeties. While the Blitzers do their job, smashing the opponent and crowd pushing, I found them often out of position due to Frenzy. Instead, my catchers worked excellently and I actually found occasional uses for the Dauntless.

My first question is: should I do the Apoth or the 12 player. I figure Norse's best chance for winning is outnumbering the other team, they certainly don't shine anywhere else. The AV7 is very counter productive to this, guys are gonna get KO'd or worse. Plus, Norse seem to want to carry a pretty full roster which include a bunch of (slightly) skilled linemen, so losing MVPs to linemen is really, well, losing them.

2nd question: assuming the above roster, my next purchases should be: Apoth, NoWere, replace Linemen.... sound good?

3rd, skills. We have a very stunty, little bash league. Right now the teams are: Goblin, Lizardmen, Skaven, Dark Elf, Human, Norse(me), Dwarf and Orc.

Blitzers: MB/Pile On/Guard (Dodge)
Catchers: Dodge/Tackle (Guard)
Linemen: Dirty Playerx2/Tackle (Guard)
NoWeres: Block/MB/Guard (???)
Throwers: Leader/Accurate

One thing I wanted to talk about was Fend. I don't have a lot of experience with or against this skill and I think I may be missing something. Why would you want your Linemen to be Fenders? I understand that if you want them knocked down you'd rather not have the opponent follow up. I also understand giving ground is never a winning strategy. I also understand that you don't have to use Fend, so if they Push your linemen back and you don't want use Fend, you don't have too, giving you a shot at blocking them back. But overall, I feel that there are better skills to select for them. In my league Tackle seems a no-brainer after the first couple DPers.

I don't know what to take on NoWeres on doubles. Dodge is an idea to try and keep them up, but I think with those 2 stunty teams other coaches will be taking Tackle. I am hesitant to even take Dodge on my other players, and in one sense its more for the re-roll then the Blocking protection. What about Side-step on doubles?

For stats I think I will always take +1 AV over +1 MV except on the Catchers. +1 STR or +1 AG is a no brainer over skills.

Finally, I don't intend on getting the Snow Troll until season end or so. Problem is I haven't played with or against one. Should I instead grab him instead of the second NoWere? They kinda fill the same roll, one is more reliable, the other more expensive and more risky. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance, I love tapping the resource that is TalkBloodbo.... oops, TalkFantasyFootball.org

[Carnis]

I found that having 2 rookie NoWeres really chewed up rerolls and often got themselves in trouble. I almost look at them as baby Big Guys that need watching after until they skill up, so carrying two is questionable right off.

My first question is: should I do the Apoth or the 12 player. I figure Norse's best chance for winning is outnumbering the other team, they certainly don't shine anywhere else. The AV7 is very counter productive to this, guys are gonna get KO'd or worse. Plus, Norse seem to want to carry a pretty full roster which include a bunch of (slightly) skilled linemen, so losing MVPs to linemen is really, well, losing them.

3rd, skills. We have a very stunty, little bash league. Right now the teams are: Goblin, Lizardmen, Skaven, Dark Elf, Human, Norse(me), Dwarf and Orc.

Blitzers: MB/Pile On/Guard (Dodge)
Catchers: Dodge/Tackle (Guard)
Linemen: Dirty Playerx2/Tackle (Guard)
NoWeres: Block/MB/Guard (???)
Throwers: Leader/Accurate

One thing I wanted to talk about was Fend. I don't have a lot of experience with or against this skill and I think I may be missing something. Why would you want your Linemen to be Fenders? I understand that if you want them knocked down you'd rather not have the opponent follow up. I also understand giving ground is never a winning strategy. I also understand that you don't have to use Fend, so if they Push your linemen back and you don't want use Fend, you don't have too, giving you a shot at blocking them back. But overall, I feel that there are better skills to select for them. In my league Tackle seems a no-brainer after the first couple DPers.

I don't know what to take on NoWeres on doubles. Dodge is an idea to try and keep them up, but I think with those 2 stunty teams other coaches will be taking Tackle. I am hesitant to even take Dodge on my other players, and in one sense its more for the re-roll then the Blocking protection. What about Side-step on doubles?

Finally, I don't intend on getting the Snow Troll until season end or so. Problem is I haven't played with or against one. Should I instead grab him instead of the second NoWere? They kinda fill the same roll, one is more reliable, the other more expensive and more risky. Thoughts?

1: I like the weres, they can be a pain, but they certainly don't fill the role of the Yhetee.

2: It's very unforgiving to start with all 4 of the fragile but expensive Blitzer/catchers. If you want to save on something I suggest dropping some of them & taking linemen early on. Apoth should be on the roster from game1, to save cash & to optionally use him to counter knockouts if you're feeling daring.

3: Your league doesnt look too stunty to me. Lizardmen, Orc and Dwarf are all AV9 teams if played right. Particularily lizardmen in able hands can be a real pain for a norse team, as you cannot tie his AG1 players down without losing players constantly.

4: Skills: I'd look at SS over tackle on the catchers. Block&Frenzy is enough vs stunties. Blitzers become good after 2 skills, either Dodge/Guard or MB/Piling on. Before that they are just too expensive. Skipping doubles on the weres is fine (although I nowdays think dodge is fine too), SS is only slightly better than SF. SF I don't rate very highly as a WW skill. Fend over tackle for linemen. Especially vs BOBs and Sauri you want to get free after one block. Personally I still skip the throwers.

5: You need the Yhetee vs dwarf/liz/orc. Can play without him, but there's no reason to. You're at a large disadvantage facing all of the AV9 teams anyway (if you both play equal, they mostly win).

[sunnyside]

Well Norse are good in their initial games so you've picked a good team (long term development especially vs AV9 teams seems to be the tricky bit).

Personally I'm in the double ulf camp. They do eat re-rolls. Each one roughly accounting for one per half if they throw a lot of blocks. On the other hand 1D blocks eat re-rolls faster, and Ulf are better about keeping you from having to make those, either because their second blocks can still be 2D or because they're paired up with a S3 player and this frees you to give an assist elsewhere.

Also Ulfs offer, in my opinion, the biggest bang for your SPPs among players you can reliably get them to, followed by zerkers. A way to start with two would be trading a zerker and catcher for an Ulf and lineman. Though Norse work with a lot of builds.


As for questions:
#1 12th player. Get an APO soon. But it isn't like having an APO means you won't suffer any bad results, it just gives you a chance at it, and only once. Keeping a player advantage can prevent your guys from getting hurt in the first place.

#2 Sounds good, but a key factor will be keeping at least 12 players each game if possible. So you might very well want to get that lineman before the ulf....er Norse werewolf. But if your guys stay health, than that'd be great.

#3 I'm increasingly liking fend on my lineman in order to go up the heavy bash teams. For one it negates frenzy and more importantly the spammed Piling On. For another Norse need to move and get those assists. You aren't going to beat a heavy armor bash team trading even blows. Fend gets you free to provide that. Also since those teams have little dodge you have less need for tackle.

#4 Dodge can be nice on werewolves especially in a longer league, but for a shorter one I'd probably ignore the double. Also I'd ignore 10s that are also doubles for most players. Kick can also be nice for Norse linemen. Kick shallow against agility teams and deep against bash teams by default. But feel free to mix it up if they adjust their positions.

#5 I agree that the troll is a vital asset against the heavy armor teams. And they are a lot better with skills, so there is a lot to be said for getting them early. However I'd advise you to dig around some threads about them, and play a couple games outside the league with one before buying them. They really will betray you even if played well and you will be infurated if you don't play 'em well or expect their problems, and in your earlier games you don't really need them to win.

[mattgslater]

My favorite Norse build for a short season: 2 Ulfs, 11 Linos, Apothecary, 3 TRRs. No frills, no nonsense, foul all the time! In a longer format, I like to start more positionals.