Auto stand-up at the end of the turn

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:38 pm

In our league we play with a special rule:
All your prone players automatically stand up at the end of yout turn (that means when a turn over takes place or when you announce that you are ready).
I think this is avery convenienent rule and represents that players that did nothing that turn will at least stand up. No BB player would forgot to stand up after all.
Maybe it's not in the sense of a turnover, but it makes playing much more relaxed in some way.
What do you think?

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:47 pm

It's a good rule for a new league, but I can see a few potential problems. What if your player stands up when you don't want him to? Wild Animals and people on the sideline are a possible reasons here. Do big guys with bonehead and really stupid have to roll for the free stand up?

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:05 pm

No, all player will be placed standing (= stands up), regardless if you want him or not. This rule has been introduced because of two things:

1) its not logical that player keep lying on the ground when they are not stunned. Every player should have the intention to play the game, and to stand up, even wild animals (those even more!). This is a fast paced game, every player should try to get back in action fast. We do not like the idea of the coach yelling from the sideline "stay down, its better for the team"

2) A Turnover is harsh for the coach who suffers it. We do not want to make it even worser for him, having no player standing around and creating tackle zones when they actually had nothing to do except to stand up.

No roll is made and its not considere free, its just like turning around stunned player as a normal game procedure.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:20 pm

My Skaven have occasionally decided that it didn't pay to stand up and get punched in the face when winning by two touchdowns. After all, they can only foul one of us per turn!

Boneheads and really stupid players normally have to make their checks to stand up and roll over, by the way.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:23 pm

One of the big disadvantages of being prone is that very often you have an opponent standing next to you. In normal play you would very often stand up at the begining of your turn, leaving them useless for the rest of your turn unless you make the dodge.

Now, for those players you have no incentive to stand them up early, and may wait until later in your turn when, because of blitzes/blocks, they can stand up and still move around.

Not a big difference, but one that removes a tactical element from the game - do I stand up now and risk being hit or stay on the floor and risk being out of next turn too?

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:39 pm

a mistake that is very often made by those designing house rules is to introduce that beguiling concept of "reality" into their new rules.

yes, it is quite unrealistic to expect that those downed players just lay there on the ground pondering their belly-buttons while the game is going on around. however, it is very much a mistake to adopt the rule you're advocating.

this is (drumroll) a game. a very big part of this game is the positioningt and movement of players. down players are a factor in game mechanics. down players can do very little in your next turn.... on purpose... down players can have little done to them in your opponent's next turn.... on purpose. taking your risky actions first and wagering that you might get a turnover and not be able to stand up your players you'd like to have get up is part of the game... on purpose.

this is not called "blood bowl, the simulation of fantasy football" rather it is "blood bowl, the game of fantasy football". it was not designed to be realistic or to obey the laws of nature, physics, common sense, or thermodynamics. it was designed to be a fun boardgame.

try to keep that in mind when writing house rules. always ask yourself, "self, is this massive change i want to make to them mechanics of the game going to alter the fundamental flow of the game's mechanics?"... if the answer happens to be yes, as it is in this case, then you're really not going to convince many people you're right... and few of those will have an especially well-developed understanding of the game itself.

...last time i checked, the last person to suggest a change to the game's core mechanics that was actually a wise and inherently desirable modification got about a an 18-page topic on it and never did win over more than a handful of disciples... those who suggest ridiculous things should expect much less...

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:18 pm

Phil:
"This is not called blood bowl, the simulation of fantasy football" rather it is "blood bowl, the game of fantasy football".

And a good thing, too. If Blood Bowl accurately simulated my fantasy football league, my quarterback would keep getting injured and my running back would underpreform until I took him off my active roster. Not to mention the problems with the kicking game. And if you don't draft a legitimate tight end, forget it.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:00 pm

Choosing to not stand up a prone player is part of the game's tactics.

Maybe I didn't stand him up because I thought I could blitz the ball free and then he could run in and get it ... whatever the reason, I either made a choice not to do so. Especially with Wild Animals.

Making it automatic reduces tactical decision on my part and allows risker plays to have significantly less penalties. No thanks.

BTW, I agree with 99.9999% of what Phil said above.

Galak

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:04 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:BTW, I agree with 99.9999% of what Phil said above.
Galak

must we open up the "blood bowl does in fact follow the laws of thermodynamics" thread yet again galak?

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 2:24 pm

I agree with phil. The laws of "reality" should not be brought into BloodBowl. If you wish to consider reality, please also consider these reasons for a player not standing up:

1) The player was just hit by a rat ogre/Troll Slayer/Minotaur. Perhaps standing up and challenging him again is not so wise a choice.

2) The player was hit REALLY hard. Not "stun" hard, but is still shaking it off.

3) The player is 2 feet from a group of rowdy, drunken Dwarves on the sideline. If he stays down, the Dwarf next to him cant shove him to his friends.

4) the player is depressed and doesnt even want to be out on the pitch and just lies there hoping that he survives.

Just because that a player is prone does not mean that the player wants to get right back up, or is even able to.

Blood

Joaquim · Post by **Joaquim** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:28 pm

Around here we use a "kind" of that rule, but one wich doesn't change the game:
A coach may declare that all of his face down players will face up (or try), and do it after the turnover.

But the objective of this rule is only to not mix face ups and face downs during his turn....

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:35 pm

De-stunning at the end of turn is a good house rule - unless you've got a Wild Animal

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:38 pm

ianwilliams wrote:De-stunning at the end of turn is a good house rule - unless you've got a Wild Animal

Why? What has the wild animal got to do with this?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:31 am

ianwilliams wrote:De-stunning at the end of turn is a good house rule - unless you've got a Wild Animal

Not sure what WA has anything to do with ... but I don't have a problem with a Stunned at end of turn going Prone (as long as NEWLY stunned (ie failed Dodges and blocks don't do so also).

Up auto stand-ups .. uh uh.

Galak

BoB · Post by **BoB** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:33 am

Wild animals MUST go first, if they stand up next to a player they MUST make a blitz, it removes one of the drawbacks of wild animal if you let them stand up for free at the end of the turn after you have used your blitz.
I often put my treeman next to a downed rat ogre, it guarauntees that if he wants to use the rat ogre then he has to take my treeman out.

We play the rule that after a turn over or end of turn a coach may stand up any players he forgot to as long as his opponent agrees. This means that coaches cant correct male chicken ups, ie where they forgot to stand up ppl that could stop the touch down, but they can do things that they genuinely forgot.
I suppose it requires a little bit of friendliness between coaches but in general we havent had any problems.